No spark

Happy Thanksgiving hope you have the best family. So this morning when out to the CJ check the fuel delivery it's a very good pump is working fine it wants to start but it's it it almost seems like it's off time and I don't understand because I have the top center I've checked the timing thousands of times to make sure it's correct it is. Anyway I did the boat test to the coil I'm going to head and send you some pictures what I did and the fuel delivery set up that I have just temporarily to get started hope you have a great Thanksgiving and I keep you iinformed.

Sorry---i hunt and peck pretty darn slow----i've sorted my pics, but there are hundreds in folders, it takes me time to find them

Just tryin' to give you info in the best order i can without writing an entire manual

When i get the results of all of your testing---we'll get more and more in depth

If you are lost on what i'm shovelling---please ask i want you to do it right!

I do link a lot to to stuff i've already written

How are we doing so far?

The medic

Loosen the distributor clamp so that the distributor is still held down with some pressure but will move and stay put, if you turn it with your hand.

Have a pal crank on it while you ease it in either direction

You can do all of this all by yourself if you turn the key to "on" and have a remote starter switch to use (see my pic)

Again, the two teaspoons of fuel into the carb barrel might help

The medic

I have been wondering about the ICM. I do not have an advanced auto parts around here. So I will have check to see who does testing. Have to wait till tomorrow since the places around here are closed. What about a weak coil? Is it a go or no go thing? I do have a timing light and so on for testing the timing.

Midnight!

Tired!

1st pic above is incorrect!

(i got lost and carried away in "paint")

Here's the correction (white block on the top left side) in the new corrected pic below!

The medic

This is where i become your bestus buddy!

We're gonna test the coil with the help of morris

I have the "1979" paper manual that was left in my '79 cj 5, by mistake when i bought it in 1983.......i did not take care of it, when i realized it's value, i started treating it like it was a sacred scroll

Using the drop-downs, install: cj 7

.........then 1980 (76-78 ign is different than yours [prestolite]...............79-80 is the same as yours [motorcraft])

They did not replicate the manuals, so "1980" is gonna be you, when you look stuff up!

Now then, last thing......."power plant-ignition system (1,961kb)".......you have just entered "the book"!

Scroll a bit

(these pages can be printed)

You will run into diagnostic chartsthey are like flow charts

The "specs" you need for the tests...are further on.......on page "1g-18"

They also assume that your "mechanicals" are in order when you begin ........(stuff i was trying to pull out of you..like distributor in right?, timing gears right? Modifications other than factory?)........that stuff is found in here too, you just gotta have a librarian (me) guide you to them, at the right times!

Forget trying to test the module yourself, you can't do it all--at once, as fast as the parts store tester can over and over, you will be fooled by the test in the manual

In fact, you'd be better off buying one---if it was not the problem, you would have a spare

I keep a spare coil, ignition module, and a fuel pump in my console.........so far, 2 other cjs were glad........one needed a fuel pump, the other an ignition module!

I have added lots of storage---made lots of stuff "user friendlier" (like roller and spherical plane bearings incorporated into my clutch linkages (never have another linkage problem again!)....many other things too!)----i pretty much carry a condensed tool shed w/ me!...............i can show you a lot of this, if you are interested

Last two pics----me just prior to ranger school w/ my '79 (#2 of 7 cjs).........my mannequin on patrol in my present day man-cave

Keep me posted---i really hope i have not been replaced by a book!

The medic

Yea i was doing that has well???? Nothing. I think I'm going for the HEI Dist and see how it gos.

it fired up!
turns out the coil was bad. thank you for pointing me in the right direction with the testing of it. turns out it was weak, very weak.
now i just need to finish the vacuum lines and time it. thank you so much for all your time and energy!

You know now that I think about it , on one of your reply you mention fuel Regulator I'm going to test the pressure of the inlet. I'll let you know.

I really did not think it would be coil failure

It's been very seldom i have seen a "coil" go bad in a cj

I have seen people put the wrong one in many times

95% of the time.......it's the ignition module that messes up!

Originally my '77 had a prestolite ignition system----very crappy!!!---it was not just "one problem", it had several........kept me on my toes trying to figure them out........from worst to better

1) the wiring to the distributor was ....solid copper wire (guessing 18 gauge) encased in what looked like the flat telephone wire that you plug in the wall....but smaller!

Even strapped decently---eventually the copper wire(s) would break from shaking.......the lifetime warranty was always honored when i would take 'em back!.......the time involved, the mega inconvenience, or breakdown was not covered

2) the vacuum rubber diaphragm/ bellows/ bladders (internals for the vacuum advance.....what ever you wanna call 'em, would bust/ burst/ tear/ break (unseen/unknown) the vacuum advance would be disabled and a vacuum leak on top of that!

3) the sliding plastic inside the distributor for the vacuum advance would "wear" and jam......resulting in full/ some/ no advance (still sorta not ez to detect the problems the jeep exhibited)

4) the "mechanical advance spring" breaks---resulting in being fully advanced all of the time.....upon seeing the "advance" with the timing light (i figured the timing was off....so i just readjusted the distributor).........duh !.......the mechanical weights have been thrown outward and cannot retract, 'cause the spring is broke---------------now i am timed correct at idle (i was advanced at idle)----mechanical advance.....is advanced!

5) the ignition modules seemed to have a short life

Since then----i learned how to quickly check and confirm that both advances (mechanical and vacuum) are actually working correctly.....using only a timing light..........i do this from time to time (usually when teaching else someone how to check 'em!)

Symptoms range from.......backfiring--loss of power---higher idle speed than before a mpg drop..........sometimes it's just not so obvious you even have a problem. These problems are not just limited to the older system, they can also happen to the motorcraft system also.......... From my experiences with mine and others just not very often

Really there was not a lot involved in order to "upgrade" to the motorcraft system. Motorcraft was installed in the 1979s on up-----i have not had much trouble with them in my jeeps, past and present---- a so much better design than before!

A few butt splices---a ballast resistor ('78 on back did not use a "resistance wire" like '79 on up)----and a few wires from a 70s or 80s "ford product" ---to tie the ign module to the distributor (those big black connectors).........i installed a reman distributor from advance auto parts---it was about $50............i had to buy a distributor cap and rotor button as well

Below is the coil for '79 on up

Glad you got it running----ready to tune it now???

The medic

I think they are overrated

If anything, i'd convert to motorcraft

At advance auto, a reman motorcraft is about $50 has a lifetime warranty too!

If you wanna wait for that, get another presto

My "last" prestolite distributor had the same qualities as the the one above, when i decided to make the upgrade, the advance auto parts manager just let me swap the presto for the motorcraft and got the same warranty

What a deal!

The medic

i am shocked it was the coil. it didn't make sense to me with an inline tester and it always showing spark. i had to learn how to test it wit a tester to tell that it was actually a problem. thank you so much for all of your knowledge. i was almost to the point of tearing out the whole ignition and replacing it.

Hi there sorry for the delay work is crazy. Ok update I sent some time on the CJ today , it's no longer a spark problem. It's a fuel issue. I got it started for like 15 sec what I've noticed is I have to open up the throttle about half to full for it to want to start. I look down into the Carb and the intake is full of fuel. Now it's more like flooded. What do you think? Thanks

For all it's worth---here's one of the several posts that i try to explain "timing" and "tuning" the carb.........this works for most any carbureted vehicle with a vacuum advance

When i go lookin' for an old post of mine to link someone to----(to keep me from having to write the same thing all over again)---i have used the "question search" ......now found down lower on the page

Our site has changed several times since i have got on here.......i liked the 1st layout, myself.......i've found that "this"...."question search" just don't work so well

Once there, i install............2carpros.....cj medevac......(then what ever i can remember as key words--one example being.....)..........xbleed (purposely made up words....this one takes me to a brake bleeding post

The more words i can remember....the better!.........other examples to find other posts are.........xradiator......sweet spot (carbs).......tough love (connections-no start)........combo pic..........hoarder........tractor.........drifting.........the list goes on! (for my benefit anyway)

For your benefit......install .......2carpros....cj medevac......cj 7 (cj 5 is 99% the same too).......then what ever jeep problem related words (maybe special to the system--example) ring and pinion........thermostat........heater....fuel tank.........etc

As far as the albums i sent thus far........did you know about the "vent" feature ---- and how it and heater controls are configured to maximize comfort?

There's a bunch of cjers who don't know the deal---who have been pulling the "air k.nob" out a 1/4 of the way---thinking "that" was 1/2 way for heat (cheating themselves out of warmth)...............never knowing the vent part existed for spring and summer driving.................................i use this 'know how' as an "icebreaker" when i meet another jeep cj kinda person

Lemme know when you need something.....you can jump back on this same post....or email me

I hope you have been able to understand me.....i'm more of a hands on kinda guy

The medic

This is the original 1 bbl carter yf?

Or is it a 2 bbl-carter bbd?

Or is it something different?

The medic

1B Carter

Gimme some history about this particular carb-who/ what/ why/ where/ and the rest!

Your jeep is really lookin' pertty!

Back on page 3, center of fuel filter feeds carb, little one on the edge is the return?

Your pics must be too big, only got one, copied it and blew it up so i could try to see everything.

The medic

I got 3 notifications

Only one reply-4 pics-2nd one worked-other 3 nothin'

Maybe you need to post one pic at a time?

Did you send any text? If so, it did not show

After your next post, i'm gonna have to hit the hay!

The medic

I have no idea what I'm doing I'll take some pic in the morning

Roger that

Gimme info i asked for about the carb

See you after i slave for the big guys tomorrow, sometime after 17:30 eastern

The medic

Carter

Found on the side of the road?

Buddy give it to you?

Has been on the jeep since it left the factory and no man has ever been inside since?

Jeep was in a barn for 20 years, never was fired up during that time?

It was rebuilt by the petty racing team 2 weeks ago?

I was sorta looking for a reason why it's "possibly" dumping gas!

The medic

Nice !! That's an M38 Willies right?

Actually he ("willy") is a 1946 cj-2a, willys jeep made just after the war. In the 1st pic (if you can see it), he's like the one 3rd row down, forth to the right.

I really wanted a "mb" (2nd row, forth to the right, but back in 1991 there was no internet. All the mbs i came across were incomplete or crap, none even close to running, however, the owners considered them gold, the lowest priced one was $750, junk! I had limited fundage and no time to travel to find what i wanted.

I got my '77 cj-5 in 1991 also. He ("mr. Jeep") was in excellent shape, he cost me $2200, he's my 6th cj-5, never had anything else! Now that i'm older and more responsible (and still broke) "mr. Jeep" has lasted the longest

(i started out with nuthin' and i still have most of it left)

Along my quest i came across "willy", willy was complete (less one brake drum), the body was shot (a 55 gallon drum of bondo held what was left together, the body was not a keeper)

1946-1948 cj-2as were a really close enough relative to the '41-'45 mb for me, so i jumped on this one. I gave the man a whopping $100, he signed over the original title, and i loaded him on my buddy's trailer.

Here's the kicker!

They all laughed as i unloaded him (family, and neighbors) and my buddy shoved him into the one car garage of the duplex i rented with his push bar.

Two years later, he rolled out looking real close to a "mb", i am still making improvements to make him get closer. The numbers on the hood is my daughter's birth date. She learned how to drive him well by age 10, took her driver's test in him too! (yep, with no seat belts, and she hand cranked him, instead of using the starter)

He's not perfect, he'll get called out as an imposter by those who know their jeeps, but for the most part, he'll fool the majority.

Although there are many subtle differences, a quick way to tell a wwii mb from a korean war m-38 is the shovel and ax is on the drivers side of a mb, and on the passenger side of a m-38. Notice where i did the body work to make my shovel and ax fit!

I could go on and on

But

Whats the carb history on yours, so we can diagnose or make suggestions?

The medic

Update: today I took one of our Acura Tech to the house so could take a look at the CJ. I work for an Acura deal in south Florida. He went over everything I have Timing, Spark, Fuel Delivery,TDC... all of it the only thing he came up with was the battery I have is not enough cranking to get the jeep started. So I'm getting a Extra battery to see what happens. He did want me to ask you a Q. when we take the Carb off the intake Man looking down the port there's a small amount of fuel there, is that common.? let me know what you think thanks.

Buy a battery?

"trt 30" is the best-us code for anything over $50

See this link!

Http://www.2carpros.com/questions/2001-dodge-neon-milage-just-want-put-fliuds-their-locations

The medic

Hello there ... will haven't had much time to work on the CJ, I did have to put in a new starter. One Q. I do have I took the carter 1bb yf off the manifold and look down in the port and found a puddle of fuel. Soaked it Up with a a shop towel , I guess the Q is that normal? Let me know thank you.

Usually the intake sucks/ vaporizes any fuel in the intake while the engine is running, so it's dry when you shut the engine off

If it has not run, you have been actuating the pedal/ throttle. Each time the accelerator pump has moved up and down and squirted a stream of fuel down the carbs throat.

So, however many times you throttled it you have puddled fuel in the intake.

Holding the pedal to the floor and cranking the engine will "un"-flood the engine, as fuel is sucked on thru

Usually, when i wanna try to start a stubborn engine/ or diagnose one quickly (like, does it have spark without testing, a splash of fuel is fast and ez) i'd guess that i'm putting in no more than about 2 teaspoons of fuel

Still no start?

Loosen the distributor a little and slowly move it both ways while it is being cranked. Does it start or at least sound more like it wants to in the different position?

Is your firing order clockwise?

(my motorcraft below, clockwise rotation like a prestolite)

The medic

Yea we're going to take another run at it tomorrow, now that I have a good starter battery fully charged and a have an assistant to help me crank it tomorrow. I think tomorrow is the day. Yea it does seem to want to start I'm going to make small moves with the distributor as my friend cranks i, will see and I'll let you know thanks.

Made you another diagram

The medic

Yea must definitely going to try that thanks

No hurry.

Nothing to report yet, been busy at work , going to try this weekend I got a 2nd battery that should help, will let you know how it go's.

That cj has been off of the road too long!

Don't let it wind up like these "we" keep at my buddy's place

The medic

Hello there I'm so sorry for the long delay.. But I have great news "it's alive"!! I bought a 2BB Webber still would not start, I got the carb in late Dec. Is I read more about the prestolite sys the more bad reviews, as a last hail Mary I ordered a HEI then one early Tuesday morning I installed it and Walla on the first turn it ran awesomely!!!! I'm sending you a vid hopefully you'll see it. But I do want say thank you for all your advice I did learn a thing or to thank you.

Send the link to the video!

A young jeep friend (just outta college) of mine showed me a bunch of snotty looking oil blowing into the breather. Definitely coolant in the oil. He ran it pretty hot. His engine was already smokin' some. He doesn't even wanna try to fix it. Kinda had that look like his best friend had died, and of course, fundage is really tight.

Another friend of mine who owns a production rebuilt engine shop, invited me over to his place two days later and asked me if i wanted to buy a crated 258 rebuilt by gm that was hidden for over 10 years in his "hoarder like" shop. Told me i could cart it away for $850.

I reckon ole tucker will have an organism when i spring the news on him, soon as i get off of here.

Pic of his "5" below, pic of him in my willys ("willy")-he's "sorta" looking for one of them too.

The medic

There you go

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Vid