Rough idle and codes P0303, P0305, P0300, P0030, P0036, P0501, P0136, and P0304

Hi,

The p0030, P0036, and P0136 are related to the heated oxygen sensor. P0501 deals with a wheel speed sensor (ABS). The remaining codes all deal with specific misfires and random misfires. If you look at the pic below, it shows cylinder location.

Check cylinder 3, 4, and 5 ignition coil. See if the connectors are properly installed and not damaged. I'm starting here because I feel it may be the cause of the other codes. Cylinders 4 and 5 are in the rear of the engine, so he may not have connected things properly.

One more thing. If you have a live data scan tool, let me know what the short-term fuel trims are at idle.

Joe

I don't have a live data scan tool. I'm afraid that's above my level of knowledge or comfort. I should also mention that the car is running hot. I tried to drive an 18-minute commute yesterday and it was past the hot zone in 6 minutes.

Hi,

Is there any noticeable white smoke from the exhaust? If you check the oil, is there any evidence that coolant is mixing with it? Also, is the coolant level staying full?

If you notice white smoke or a creamy tan substance in the oil, that usually indicates a bad head gasket. And yes, the overheating can be caused by it.

Take a look through this link and let me know if anything mirrors what you are experiencing:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/head-gasket-blown-test

Let me know.

Joe

Hi Joe. It's been a while since I've written back because I've been trying to get help in my neighborhood, but everyone is too busy to follow-up what they started.

I have checked the ignition coils for cylinder banks and they all appear to be okay. The ignition coils actually look new. I did notice a bad spark plug or two, and the intake hose has a hole in it.

I have included pictures for you, if they will attach without fail. A buddy helped yesterday by pulling up the plenum to get to the back spark plugs. When we re-assembled everything and cranked the engine there was a dull pop that came from it.

My friend noticed that the back of the plenum was too loose, meaning I have to start this all over again. My friend won't be around for a few days I'm sure.

Also, last week I noticed a box hanging almost to the ground. It has rusted out of its housing. It appears to be a charcoal or evap canister. It is attached from some tubes toward its center, but its side has appears to have some tubing missing that is going up towards the gas cap. I smell gas fumes. I really need some help with this car.

Hi,

The plenum shouldn't need to be removed again. You should be able to re-torque the bolts. As far as the box, that is most certainly the charcoal canister. Are you able to see what allowed it to drop? Is it rust or missing bolts?

Let me know.

Joe

It most certainly is rust. Have a look at this pic showing my attempt to support it with a plastic grocery bag. As I was handling the canister the housing all around it was steadily crumbling on my face.

Hi,

Is there a place you can secure it that isn't near the exhaust and it can't be hit by road debris? Also, please use something different than a plastic bag. It will break. Also, it could melt if it's near anything hot.

That bag has been removed. If you will notice the first pic, I have it held up by shoe strings. I have changed all spark plugs and am replacing the intake hose tomorrow. After that, I'm thinking perhaps I should sell this vehicle, or trade it in.

Hi,

If it is rusted that badly, it may be time to get a different vehicle. If, however, the frame, floor, and rockers are in good condition, it may be worth fixing. You know the vehicle and its needs. One never knows what he is getting with a used car.

It's just a thought. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help you.

Take care,

Joe

Here is a video showing the underside of the vehicle from the rear end.

Hi,

It does look a little rough. Is it the same the entire way to the front? If it is, you may want to consider a replacement.

Let me know if you have questions.

Take care,

Joe

No, it isn't. I have a video of that too if you need to see it. I have a neighbor who helped me install new spark plugs, and replace the air intake hose. He had me crank up the car and it sounds a bit different but still rough. He thinks it's the O2 sensor or a clogged catalytic converter? I'm replacing the plenum gasket and have ordered new spark plug wires. They arrive on Monday. Is there anything I could be doing in the meantime? My neighbor that helps me is a bit impatient, and gets cranky. I'd rather do this myself. Working with you is a lot more comfortable for me. I appreciate your time and effort! Todd

Todd,

I would be happy to help. You could try checking for engine vacuum leak? If you suspect the catalytic converter is plugged, you could remove the oxygen sensor before it to see if that makes a difference. It's a small opening, but if the converter is plugged, that added release is noticeable.

Next, did it overheat on you within 6 minutes?

Take a look through these two links. The first explains how to locate a vacuum leak and the second discusses symptoms of a bad catalytic converter.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-an-engine-vacuum-gauge

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/bad-catalytic-converter-symptoms

The one related to the catalytic converter discusses common symptoms. See if they seem to mirror what you experience. And don't laugh, but after driving or running it, take a look at the converter. If it's plugged, oftentimes they get so hot, they can be glowing red.

Let me know if you decide to try these and what you find. Also, feel free to ask any questions that you have.

Take good care of yourself,

Joe

Joe, I owe you an apology. The OBDII codes that I'm overlooking direct me right to where I need to focus! P0136 already tells me that's it's an O2 sensor (bank 1, sensor 2), but I just can't find the darn thing. I learned where it should be and that it's downstream but I swear I took a carp and hunted all under this vehicle and cannot find it. There appears to be a hole near the side of the catalytic converter but I can't be too sure. And that whole rusted corner where the charcoal canister is hanging really bothers me.

The JVC radio in this car is awesome though! Can it be removed if I get rid of the car?

I'm very close to parting with this car. I'm a Saab enthusiast and I have the opportunity to buy another one off a dude for $1,50.000. (I've owned 7) It needs power steering pump replacement and has no radio. I was going to offer him $1,200.00.

Check out this item on OfferUp. https://offerup.co/4NAdaiAATgb

Just make sure you check it out completely. Remember the old saying, Buyer Beware. Check for rust. I noticed it has an Illinois plate. If you guys use salt in the winter as we do here, Ugh!!! LOL

As far as the radio, absolutely you can remove it and install it in a different vehicle.

As far as the oxygen sensor (B1S2) I attached a couple of pics below to help you locate it. Note that bank 1 is close to the firewall. Bank 2 is close to the radiator. Also, sensor 2 will be after the catalytic converter.

If possible, upload a pic of the hole you are referring to. If it is before the catalytic converter, that is going to cause a lean reading at sensor 2 which will cause the computer to add fuel that isn't needed.

Let me know if this helps.

Take care,

Joe

See pics below.

Thank you for the attachments you provided. I thought the first one was B1S1 since it was before the catalytic converter, on the firewall side and higher up. I recognized the location of B1S2 better in the second attachment. I misspoke about the hole in the catalytic converter. That was a mistake.

What I did find is the location of all the O2 sensors and I learned a lot about this engine by being underneath the car for 45 minutes. There appears to be an oil leak around the sensor that I was searching for. I attached two pics (one with natural light, one with flash) and if the video will transmit, it will be provided as well. I also saw some droplet of green substance, perhaps coolant.

Hi,

It does like there is an oil leak. But, most cars on the road have one. LOL. As far as the green, I'm not sure where you are seeing it. In the third pic, I see something greenish that looks dry. Is that it?

As far as the sensors, I'm glad you located them. I miss the old days. No sensors, LOL.

Regardless, let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

Take care,

Joe

Perhaps the green I saw is dry, even better. And the oil just seeps, it's no leak onto pavements. I should've put some spray to loosen the rusted bolts while I was under there. I really wanted you to see the video. It's like a fascinating whole, new world underneath there, lol. Because there is little wiggle room and that sensor is not budging, I will take to a shop where the lifts come in handy. I also dropped my 12mm socket down in the engine. I have to fish out!

Joe, you've been wonderful and helped me narrow down to the culprit, something no YouTube video did clearly. I thank you!

You are very welcome. I'm glad I was able to help. However, where did you drop the 12mm socket? LOL. Now, I'm worried. LOL

Let me know if I can help and the final outcome. If I don't hear back from you, please feel free to come back anytime in the future. You're always welcome here.

Take care, my friend.

Joe

Man, the socket is just underneath the plenum. I can see it right there. It is between the manifolds. And dude, check this out. I go out this morning with a brilliant idea to attach a clip-on refrigerator magnet to the handle of a feather duster. Guess what's now there with the 12mm socket? Yep, the clip-on refrigerator magnet. I then went in my tool kit to find a flat head screwdriver long enough, then thought "let me quit while I'm ahead". The magnet is so strong that it's clinging to the alloy on the engine, lol.

I have a mobile mechanic coming tomorrow who happens to have done a job for another client on the same car. He than bought said car off the client. I gave him my budget, got his credentials and references and plan on meeting him tomorrow. He'll allow me to do some of the work myself and save.

Can I ask what don't you know? In case other projects come up like car audio, fog light repair (one doesn't work). I'm thrilled to be giving this free car another chance. It is loaded with accessories that all work!

Hi,

Glad to hear you got help. Let me know what you find. As far as what I don't know, well there's a lot. However, when it comes to vehicles, I can usually figure most anything out. It may take some time, but I usually won't give up. LOL

Take good care of yourself,

Joe

Oh dear God, I wish I could trust someone with my car here. Joe, the mobile mechanic showed up and looked over my car. I paid him $100.00. I could tell he knew what he was doing because he went to a place no one else went, and made observations unique to others attempting to help me. His focus was the spark plug firing order, the sound of the engine and the timing belt. (He removed the cover and checked some notches and made marks.) His summary was a clogged catalytic converter. He gave me three options that I wasn't so sure about: 1) shop for new catalytic converter estimated around $400.00 and let him do the labor at $125.00 for 5 hours. 2) sell him my car. 3) he knows a guy for straight pipe for around $700.00. But, when I went behind him and re-scanned the codes, No codes show up now.

Hi,

Wow! First, it is against federal law to remove the converter and straight pipe it. Since that was one of his options and another is to sell it to him, well, I don't know how much I trust him.

Did you try removing the o2 sensors to see if it made a difference? Now that all the codes are gone, is the vehicle running any differently?

Let me know. Also, if you could record what it's doing and upload it for me to hear, it may help.

If you were near Pittsburgh, I would help.

Let me know.

Joe

I didn't try removing the sensors. It's too tight under there. The video is attached along with the business card of a shop I trust to get it fixed right. I met the owner yesterday as he was out working on cars, and told him the whole story. When I said $680.00 and straight pimp, he said "whoa". It will have to be towed to his lot tomorrow evening per his instructions. It won't hold when I crank it up.

Hi,

Thanks for the video, it helps. When it does try to start, I hear a knocking sound. Is that coming from under the vehicle? If it is, that could indicate the insides of the catalytic converter are loose and could be blocking the exhaust flow. If you rap on the exhaust with something like a rubber mallet, can you reproduce that sound?

Let me know.

Joe

I can't reproduce that sound. It's just solid. The local shop owner says it has the timing off. That mobile dude may have intentionally mismarked it. Rebuilding engine necessary, or find another or part with vehicle.

Before we make any decisions, would you consider performing a compression test on the engine? That will let us know if it is a timing issue.

If the timing is off, there could be internal damage already done. If we can confirm that is the issue, we can put it in time and see what happens.

As far as getting a different vehicle, that's a tough call for me to make. If it is in good condition, it may be worth fixing. If there are other major issues you are aware of, maybe it's time to get rid of it. The only thing is if you purchase another used vehicle, we have no idea if there are hidden problems.

As far as the compression test, here is a link that shows how to perform a test:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-engine-compression

Let me know if you are comfortable doing it.

Take care,

Joe

It's now towed to another garage who will do the pressure test. Those guys didn't do anything to back up their claim. Fortunately it didn't cost me anything.

Sounds like a good plan. If possible, let me know what is found. I'm interested in knowing.

Take care,

Joe

Okay, will do. This continuing saga, lol.

Don't worry. We'll get it figured out. I'm interested in knowing what is found.

Take care,

Joe

I'm sorry to say this but I am stuck. I went to the owner of the current garage where my car was towed last Wednesday. My car buddy told him it was his car to get proper attention to it and perhaps expedite it's servicing. The owner commented on the wrong coil being on the engine.

As of today, my car sits in his lot unfinished. I have been promised twice that it would be worked on. I am so sick and tired of this. I use my car for work and I'm going through money like crazy, not being able to go to work. I just feel like I'm surrounded by people that only want to make money off me. By the time the car is looked at I won't have funds for anyone!

Is it acceptable to ask for a discount of $100.00 if twice I'm promised something and it's not followed through on?

Hi,

I don't think it would be wrong to ask for a discount because of how long it's taking. However, I don't know who you are dealing with.

As far as the coil, how did the wrong one get used?

Joe

All I know is the coil that's been on the car since I got it on April 17th.

Okay. If possible, keep me updated. I'm interested in knowing what is found.

Take care,

Joe

Hi Joe. Alas! I received a call today that my car was ready to be picked up. Instead of tell you I'm going to let you review the attached.

Hi,

That's great news. Is it running properly now? It looks like the intake was leaking since they replaced that gasket and then a basic tune-up, plugs and wires. Is that correct? Is there anything they did other than testing?

Let me know.

Joe

They also repaired the evap canister that was rusted out of its housing. The car has great pickup now. It shows 22 miles on the odometer and the owner of the shop had me reimburse him for $10.00 gas, although the needle shows close to Empty. I tell ya, lol. If that's the case shouldn't the needle be at least at a 3rd or even half tank, on a car that holds 17.20 gallons and gets 22/30 city/hwy?

Hi,

One would think so. However, they may have had it running a lot when checking things.

I'm really glad to hear they repaired the EVAP canister mount. That one had me concerned. LOL

Enjoy it. Also, please feel free to come back anytime in the future if you need help or have questions. You are always welcome here.

Take care.,

Joe

Thank you Joe. I do have other concerns though. Although the CEL is off, the ABS light and the brake lights are on in the dash.