Car won't start at all now.

1994 BUICK LESABRE
186,600 MILES
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BRAVESTAR1
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Okay. I had the car running, though it wasn't very good. It tended to misfire, run rough and slow going up the hill in the morning, and generally acted like either the fuel pump or a sensor was bad. So I took it to a garage and they said it was the MAF sensor, after wanting to charge me $150 to put in new spark plugs, and another $200 for diagnosis of the codes, as well as $350 for the sensor.

I replaced the wires, plugs, MAF sensor, and now I just finished the crank sensor. It just won't start. Before it would start after a very prolonged, 9+ times trying to get it to run. The starter works, the battery is charged, I can hear the fuel pump running, and I get 41psi at the rail, thanks to the fuel pressure tester.

What could be wrong here? I just completed the Crankshaft Position Sensor on a hunch after reading of similar problems, and cleaned the crankshaft pulley so that the magnetic pickup would be perfect. I really can't think of what else to do here?
Aug 24, 2012 at 6:32 PM
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KHLOW2008
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Are you getting sparks at the plugs?
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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Well the starter works, let me check.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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Yeah I've got spark. It sorta starts slightly, but doesn't stay on.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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KHLOW2008
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You have been replacing a lot of things by hearsay, that is costly and a waste of money. You need to diagnose what is missing causing the non starting.

Have you checked for trouble codes?
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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KHLOW2008
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If the sparks are not bright blue, it can mean a failing ignition coil.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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The car actually does start, but then quits one second later.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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How can you tell if the sparks are bright blue? I took one of the plug wires off the car, put a spark plug in, and grounded it, but it gave off an orange spark. I don't know if that's really the correct way of doing it.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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There was a trouble code, but unfortunately in doing up the Crank position sensor I d/c the battery and lost it. I'm getting sparks from all the nodes of the coil pack when I test them.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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KHLOW2008
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Yes, you can do it that way and orange means a weak spark.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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Dang, a weak spark huh. So a coil pack is in my future then?

I know there are 3 separate modules on this car, if it's all of them, could it be something else?
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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KHLOW2008
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Yes, vacuum leakages, engine compression below specs are possibilities.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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I'm getting a lot of orange/purple sparks when I try all of the spark plugs from the front row. Which given the coil pack, it just doesn't seem coil related. I've had other cars where the coil pack is just not throwing out anything, on one node, but this isn't the case. It wants to start, but dies 1 sec after starting. It's like something isn't holding the vacuum. Had this problem on my 98 Mercury Sable DOHC, where the vacuum hose from the brake booster was off, and wouldn't allow the car to stay running. The car was working for a time, before I replaced the MAF sensor, but I don't recall removing anything special. It was such a simple fix.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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KHLOW2008
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Any leaks between the MAF and throttle body would result in stalling. Check the MAF connectors. Are you sure the replacement MAF is good>
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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No, I'm not sure at all. It's one of those "arrgh!" moments. I wonder how you check that to see if it's working properly.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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The thing with doing the CPS. It costs me $100-200 for a code read on this car. It cost $40 for the CPS, plus some 1/4" 28tpi bolts. Since my problem matched exactly with every question I looked at, involving this problem, it was cheaper to throw a Position Sensor on the car, than to run a diagnosis on the car. I gambled and lost, but for all I know, it might have been bad as well.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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On any other vehicle I've worked on, I'd go over every vacuum hose, but on this car, there's like 2 or 3. One to the booster, one to the fuel pressure valve, and a tiny one that runs to a box on the fire wall, which I believe helps with either cruise control or AC. Very simple vehicle, compared to today's 2000's cars.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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KHLOW2008
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Reinstall the old MAF and test if there are any difference. Try wiggling the connector.

Orange and purple are two different color so which is which?
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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Well believe it or not, I get both. That's how much spark I get off of a spark plug from that coil pack. In fact, I wore a rubber glove, an orange rubber signal glove, and electricity still went through it to my hand, when I took the wire set off the coil pack to check for continuity.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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So I threw the old MAF sensor in, and after some hard tries at starting, I did get it to at least start. Runs like crap, and it sounds like it's sucking air as bad as an emphysema patient. You can really hear the air flow in the nozzle before the air filter element. So....that's the last time I buy a part off of Amazon.com It's throwing out a hard-line SES light, and since I did do the diagnostics earlier at a garage, it's gotta be that.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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KHLOW2008
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So most likely you got a bad MAF.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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Yeah, just got to send the part back to Amazon for an exchange, and perhaps this matter will resolve itself soon. If anything else develops, I'll let you know. The fun part is, I messed around for a month trying to figure this one out. Sometimes it takes another person to simply say, "Hey, that new part, just might be junk too." That's why I always come here first, before getting too carried away. Well, almost. I did replace that crank sensor, suppose I can take that off now.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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KHLOW2008
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Bad replacement part is a real killer as we tend to assume that it is good.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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Yeah it's a real kick in the pants. Especially since I got a pretty decent deal off Amazon, when I usually go to Autozone or Advance Auto. So I could've easily just drove over and done it today. Gotta wait 3-5 days now. That's the trade off. Same part number though as Amazon, for a $40 savings.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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CADIEMAN
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been reading this thread.good job khl. just wanted to add.just because the part is new.it doesnt mean it a good part.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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So, I'm coming to learn. Was lucky that I was under the 30 days, so I was able to get a replacement sent for free, just had to return the other one. Gotta love Amazon for that. Only caveat is, I gotta wait a few more days to get the part in, and then possibly put back the new Crankshaft Position Sensor.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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KHLOW2008
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Thanks cadieman.

Keep us posted Bravestar1
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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Thanks I will, still waiting for the reship, probably by the 4th.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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Installed new MAF sensor last night, car would not start. What are the odds the two new MAF sensors would be bad. My thinking is the car will not accept the Cardone Select model 86-50001 with another sticker on it that says 4006474013-38. My next idea is to buy ALL of the remans available until I find one that works, return the rest. I do have Autozone, Carquest, Advance Auto, and NAPA and CAP all in the same town.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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KHLOW2008
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Both new MAf being bad is possible if they comes in a batch, meaning all of them could be faulty but the other possibility is that the sensor is not the correct one.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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CADIEMAN
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will it run on starting fluid?
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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I've never thought to try starting fluid, but I bought a reman from a different store, and it didn't work either. I can't understand how the old unit can sometimes work, and all these "new" or "reman" ones don't. Is there something else we're missing here? Is there a relay or control switch that is missing here? The old one makes the engine suck a ton of extra air, these ones don't do anything at all.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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KHLOW2008
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Is the reman part number exactly the same as original?

If you have a scan tool, plug it in to monitor the MAF and see if you can get any details with original and new unit.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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I wish I could use a Scan tool, but this car has that in-between system that costs me $100-200 every time I want the car scanned. And I can't even get it out of the yard.

I thought, perhaps last night the numbers on the units might be off, I know I tried one from the junkyard that was a few numbers off and that didn't help either. I will check and see what it says.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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KHLOW2008
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MAFs are rather sensitive and difference to part numbers can mean a lot.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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Well for reference I have part number AFH50M-03 with 4218 as the original unit.

New one from Amazon is. Just some strange 1031265000118547 with a 24500737 and a 24502976

Interesting. On the bottom, Mine is a C1 Japan, with a 423 in the pie.
New One is a C8 with 654 in the pie. So clearly not the same.

Reman has a C9 with 654 in the pie, and and AFH50M-03A under the sticker, so clearly that's gotta be a problem, having that extra A under there. Original is the one in the right on both pics.
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Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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KHLOW2008
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They are different.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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What am I doing wrong here? I've got to be missing something. I got another reman one from an AC Delco affiliate. Took me a week to find time to install it, and it wouldn't work. I put the old one back in, after a little difficulty got the car started, and the SES light comes right on.

Just to be sure I disconnected the wire harness to the MAF sensor and within secs the car stalled out, so I know the wires are good. Why is it so hard to find the right part for this? Is it even the MAF sensor at all, could it be something else fooling the computer into thinking (and me) that the MAF sensor is bad???
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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KHLOW2008
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It is difficult to say if the replacement part is good and the only way to confirm is to swap with a known good MAF between 2 vehicles.

Normal code readers would not do the job and most up-to-date scan tools comes with adapters for those in between.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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BRAVESTAR1
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The thing is, I'm running out of places to get new/reman sensors. Getting tired of waiting, threw 3000 into a transmission, this shouldn't be that hard. Not like changing out the Crank Sensor or something like that.
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM
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KHLOW2008
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Any friend with the same vehicle?
Jan 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM