Hi, I am going to buy my very first car. Is it a good idea to buy a classic car?

I actually really appreciate all the logical arguements. It helps me see the pros and cons of cars. I am also very glad that you guys have disagreements. It's just what I needed. I needed to hear from experts that have different views. As you can see my question is simply stated yet a very complicated one, that even car experts couldn't come to an agreement. I will have to decide soon and whatever I chose doesn't mean that I favor one of you guys over the other. This decision is important because it will effect my life for the next years, maybe decade. Judging from what Caradiodoc had said, I think I'm leaning towards the classic car. Now I am not judging from the looks of the car anymore. I do want a simple car, that will be easy to diagnose and repair. I also need it not to clean my wallet. I also would want it to be simple enough that in certain circumstances, I could repair it myself. I'm freshly starting my life and have a lot of learning to do.

I suspect you already had your mind made up when you came here. You were just hoping to find someone that would agree with you. Yes, you found one and a whole bunch that don't. You won't be happy until you have experienced the nightmare so go for it.

I did want to get the classic car, but as you can see I had second thoughts. That is why I posted my question. I am taking all of your answers into consideration. As for Caradiodoc, yes he gave me hope that it wouldn't be so bad to own a classic car as a first because modern cars have many issues as well. I don't know much about cars, but it does make sense that modern cars are more complex because it is modern. As of now, I really don't mind if I get a modern or a classic. The pros and cons of both types of cars are posted here. Both sides of the arguments are so good that even I can't decide. But like I said based on what Caradiodoc has said about classic cars, about it's simplicity, I'm leaning towards that direction. I have reread the answers here over and over, and still can't come to a decision. Yes I understand that modern cars are more up to date with it's technology, but wouldn't that make it more of a challenge to fix if anything bad should happen to it? I'm not arguing here, I basically want to consider every options before I make a big decision.

What part of the country are you in? Wrenchtech had me thinking about his comment about having to readjust automatic chokes for every season. I had never had to do that, and up here in Wisconsin we do have quite different seasons, but then it occurred to me that in the mid '70s our extremely intelligent politicians decided there would be less pollution if those chokes were fully open within three minutes of starting the engine. They weren't warmed up enough yet to run right. I know one person who bought a new '76 model van for his business, and every day in winter he would get about a mile down the road, then have to pull over and wait for the engine to get warm enough to run right. The dealer couldn't do anything to make it better, but someone else made some minor modifications after it was out of warranty. If there was one vehicle, there were surely others. That might be some of the experience Wrenchtech is drawing on.

Something else I think you're going to find is when you need help with a problem and you come here, for the older car someone will just tell you what to fix. For the newer car they're going to tell you how to diagnose it so YOU can figure out what to fix. What I'm trying to say is there's fewer parts in each system on the older cars so we usually know from experience exactly what is wrong. There's more parts on newer cars so we use our experience to guide you in diagnosing what is wrong.

Regardless which car you pick, be sure to do a substantial test drive first. Don't let anyone tell you that you just have to "wiggle this" or "ignore that". You should be able to drive any car you buy without doing things like that. It's real easy to overlook those details in the excitement of buying a car.

Consider having a third party inspect the car too. You might stop in at a few independent shops and ask about that before you even bring them a car to look at. That will save you trying to find a shop while you're on your test drive. I promote tire and alignment shops because they are accustomed to pulling off wheels to check brakes, and they know what to look for on steering and suspension systems. You can still drive with a rattle in the dash, but not when a suspension part breaks. You don't have to turn down a car that is going to need a brake job soon but you should know that up front. That can even work to your advantage. If normal repairs are needed soon, you can use that for bargaining on a price for the car. If the seller is competent to do the work himself, why didn't he do it before putting the car up for sale? If he offers to do the work, I would buy the car as is for a better price, then take it to the shop that did the inspection. In general, I feel that with the needed work that they find, they're expecting to never see you again, (knowing it's not your car yet), so they're more likely to give you an unbiased opinion.

Be sure to let the seller know you're going to have the car inspected so he doesn't panic when you're gone for a couple of hours. That's also when that extra little information comes out. "OH, . . .it might need a new tail pipe". "OH, . . . did I mention that tiny little power steering fluid leak?" Things like that aren't necessarily deal breakers but you don't want to be surprised with those things later. The seller will usually share the bad points of the car when he knows they're going to be found out at the inspection anyhow. Every car has its issues. People either sell cars because of those issues or they know they're going to be trading their car so they stop fixing the issues that pop up.

There can also be problems the seller truly didn't know about so don't automatically be too hard on them. If you have it in writing from the inspection, that will be a dandy negotiating tool. You also don't have the experience yet to know that many people will try to take advantage of a first-time car buyer. Consider taking your father, uncle, or even a favorite teacher along, even if they don't know anything about cars. It's not the car you need them for. It's the negotiating.

Price is always negotiable so don't automatically accept the price on the "For Sale" sign. For you, it's what you can afford. For some of us, it's "value", meaning what do you have to give up so you can buy that item? If you can afford to eat out one night less per week, that's not a big deal. If you won't be able to pay the rent this month or buy groceries, that's a pretty big deal. Look at what you have to give up to get what you want.

You might even want to post the results of a test drive or inspection here before you buy anything.

There isn't a car built in the 70's that won't stall when it's cold without being heavily modified. I worked for Chrysler in the 70's and I can tell you that every single brand new car that we took off a car carrier could not be backed off the truck without stalling at least once and many of them multiple times. I had to find ways to modify these vehicles to satisfy customers. Me and the owner of the dealership used to often joke how that what was being built was a $5000 car with a 10 cent carburetor. The number one complaint I heard on all vehicles was the carburetor and stalling problems. Any one that wasn't around during that time and has spent their life driving computer controlled, fuel injected cars shouldn't invest a penny in a 70s vintage car without spending a lot of time driving one first. They should NEVER be an every day driver.

So what was the fix? My boss's van was a '76 Dodge. Previously he had a '71 Dodge with the same Carter carburetor and had no problems at all. My '78 Lebaron also ran fine since new. I have to assume it had to do with the choke and not the carburetor itself, but you tell me please. I also have had my Volare since new. That has a problem with fuel evaporating out of the float bowl overnight into the vapor canister. I know the fix for that and have the part but I never bothered to install it because I drive it so little. It just causes a long crank time first time in the day, then it's fine the rest of the day. That's a big tough six-cylinder though with a very different Holley carburetor.

You just got finished telling me how problem free those carbs were. If you haven't found it yet, that Holly has a hidden, adjustable power valve in it and the accelerator pump squirters have to be drilled out and enlarged after modifying the factory choke settings.

That was a Carter carburetor, (I'm pretty sure) on a 318 c.i. I never had the problems you're describing and like my boss had, but my cars were all older or newer. I just assumed Chrysler incorporated a fix into the later models. I never heard about those problems on GMs or Fords either. Doesn't mean they didn't have problems, just that I'm not aware of any.

The slant 6 had a Holley.

This debate could go on forever lol.If you were afraid of the big bad multi computer cars like cardiodoc has you worked up about stick with under the year 2000 car.I know even those have multi computers but there not as advanced or complicated as the newer ones.Also you live in a very easly accessed information time with the internet.Look at this site for instance you can ask questions about your car problems and we will help you with them.If your willing to listen and buy tools etc to make the repairs and diagnoses then whats the big deal.I will tell you this from my expernices from what i have seen in the car world and the world in general.Better to embrace new technologies then run and hide from them.If you try to run and hide from them they will run you down.I started working at the car dealers when i was 19 years old.I watched a lot of the older guys just try to skate by and try to ignore the new technologies.They fought trying to use the service stall to put in new calibrations in the computers.Fought trying to figure out if the computer was bad or it was another problem.Electrical problems baffled them and they had no respect for new younger techs coming in.The worse part was everytime i was team leader or shop foreman most of the time i was the youngest one.So trying to get them to listen or respect me as there boss was a challenge.I have never been afraid or try to hide from the new more complicated cars.I got stuck fixing all the cars no one took the time to fix or was able to figure out.It made me a lot better at fixing cars and figuring stuff out.So my advice to you and you can take the advice and do as you wish with it is to get a newer car not a classic car.I have owned classic cars in my day and made every day drivers out of them.I enjoy the newer cars much better for ever day drivers.Also this one is for cardiodoc whining about too many computers and how hard they are to fix.Iam a factory trained GM EV1 tech that is a fully electric car.It was the first full electric car available to the public lease only in 1997.Only available in california and airzona you may have heard of it.It started out as the GM impact as a prototype car.Then Gm told the engineers that designed it you have 6 months to make it a production car.So you could only imagine what bugs that car hard when it was put in the peoples hands.The manuals were pieced together.We trained for two weeks for the car and every night at my hotel room i had to replace atleast 10-15 pages in the repair manuals they gave us.The car was still basically a prototype very rough fit finish etc.It had 27 batteries 7 computers over 500 trouble codes.Something broke it could set 50 trouble in multiple computers.It had a left and right inside junction box with intergrated relays etc.Also to make things worse the dealer i worked for was close to the rail head where the cars came in on the trains and were stored.So i always had lots of the cars to work on the rail head wouldnt charge them so the batteries went dead and the high voltage relays opened so they wouldnt charge.So then drop the pack and replace all the batteries.Then hopefully the reason they didnt charge the car wasnt because there was another problem that opened the high voltage relay preventing charging.That was a lot of fun working on those cars not lol.So you can complain about too many computers blah blah blah.I wish could have had a taste of working on those cars.I had susan sommers car the one that played crissy on threes company she left the front of here car under a sprinkler.So everytime you stepped on the brake the horn would honk and the wipers would come on lol.

You missed my complaint completely over all of these forums. I have never once complained about not being able to fix computer-controlled cars. That's one of the main subjects I teach, and I've had very good results with students whose preferred learning style is hands-on with things they can see and touch, vs. students who learn best by visualizing in their heads. Those are the people who are typically good at understanding electrical. I too have seen people wash out of the industry because they didn't keep up with technology, but my complaint isn't that technology; it's the COST of repairing something when it breaks. That's where I get frustrated. It's also the inappropriate use of technology that needlessly makes something more complicated than it has to be. Ever heard of "KISS"? "Keep it simple, stupid". Why do we need a Body Computer to run a delayed rear wiper? Anyone who has owned a '96 or newer Caravan has had it replaced for front wipers that don't work. Those wipers don't do anything that delayed wipers haven't done for 40 years, so why do they need a computer now? Tell the customer the benefit of that computer when you hand them the bill.

Did you know that cars have had electric horns for a really long time? I can understand adding on a remote keyless entry system for people who like that kind of stuff, but explain to me why Ford sees fit to use the horn switch to send a voltage to the most "intelligent" computer on the car, the instrument cluster, which interprets that signal, then sends a digital signal on the buss to the "FEM" (front electronic module), which interprets that signal, then turns on the horn relay. Explain to your customer why it's going to cost $800.00 to fix their dead horn. If that kind of use of technology really benefits the owner, why don't they involve three or four computers in blowing the horn?

I wouldn't even complain if these computers were as reliable as the old tank I'm typing on right now. I built it 12 years ago and have never had a problem, but look at the environment where computers live in cars. Road salt, rain, ice, summer heat. Wrenchtech is warning about electrical problems on old cars. How can you possibly expect newer cars to be more reliable when they have so much more wiring and connectors? It's a testament to the engineers that we don't see a lot more corroded connectors and splices but putting more of them on the car isn't going to make them less of a problem.

If you want appropriate use of technology, look at smart air bags, anti-lock brakes, lighter yet more rigid suspension systems, comfortable seats, computer-controlled ignition and fuel injection that makes the exhaust so clean you can put your mouth on the tail pipe and live to tell about it. But, . . . when a car manufacturer tells a customer they can not go to a salvage yard to buy a replacement computer; that the only way to fix their car is by buying a new computer from them, AND, the software has to be installed at the dealer, I see red, and I'll warn people about that every chance I get. That doesn't mean I can't fix it. It means I don't want to pay for it. If you still choose to buy from that manufacturer, more power to you, but is it asking too much to go into the transaction prepared with some information? Why keep those details secret? How many Volkswagens get towed to the dealer to have computers unlocked because someone tried to replace their own battery?

GM had Theft Lok on their radios in the '90s that caused some problems for owners, but they had the choice to not activate it. Owners aren't given the choice anymore.

Chrysler decided a $15.00 backup light switch on the transmission that worked fine since the 60s was no longer acceptable. The switch is still on the transmission, but now it grounds a 5.0 volt signal to tell the Integrated Power Module to turn on a transistorized switching circuit to send current to the backup lights. Appropriate use of technology? When a friend's '06 truck had no backup lights, he needed a $750.00 computer, then he spent weeks arguing the new computer was defective. He wasn't allowed to return it because it had been plugged in! What a scam. I convinced him it really was a computer problem so he ordered a second one, and that fixed the problem. $1500.00 to fix the backup lights. Explain to him the benefit of that computer. In order to pass inspection, I built a circuit with one relay that used the original switch, and it worked fine. If it wouldn't have been for the 4wd lights that also didn't work, he wouldn't have even replaced that computer.

Now with all the computer reflashes, the manufacturers have found even more ways to suck money from unsuspecting owners. It makes perfect sense to have fewer computers in inventory, then install software tailored to that specific vehicle, but some manufacturers have added another layer of greed to the process, and THAT is where my anger comes from. Hyundai is the only manufacturer I'm aware of that allows anyone free access to their web site, and all the downloads are free. Thank you, Hyundai. Chrysler and Toyota allow anyone to flash their computers, except the Security system, for a subscription to their web site and $40.00 per download. Still reasonable, and any independent shop can do the work. There's only a few manufacturers who tie everything up and refuse to let other shops have access to the information except for three computers as mandated by the government because they directly affect emissions. Wrenchtech knows very well one of the manufacturers I'm referring to. Business practices like that only prove that the manufacturer puts profits ahead of their customers, and I choose to not do business with companies like that.

And I AM familiar with those 6,000 cars you're talking about that were only sold in California. Leased actually. We all heard the story way up here in Wisconsin about the multitude of owners who loved those cars and didn't want to give them up. Some people even tried hiding them and claimed they were stolen. With such huge public interest, wouldn't the smart thing be to ramp up production and service shops? Instead they decided it would cost too much to build the infrastructure to keep the cars on the road. I don't know much about those cars but it was obvious they had a product people wanted, so they cancelled production and crushed the cars already out there. Apparently they weren't smart enough to think about that infrastructure before they decided to lease the cars they did have. If they didn't want to support 6,000 wildly popular cars, what would it take TO want to support a product?

Just had a visit today from a former student who has been working at a Ford dealership. He is laughing at the electronics in their new cars. Some techies like the entertainment value, most customers tolerate it, but a lot of people run from those cars with all the distractions. Cars have already had reading lamps for drivers as well as passengers, (mine don't need a computer to turn on), but how long will it be before they start putting recliners in for drivers? If you have to be entertained, do it at home, not while driving. Well, okay, . . . I like a nice tune now and then, but not when the distraction makes me a safety hazard.

If a car really needs a computer to do something that can't be done without one, fine; use a computer, but allow me to buy a used one without having to go to the dealer, and there's no reason a new one should cost twice as much as a new laptop computer. New mothe rboards cost around $100.00 and do a lot more than any car computer, but print a car manufacturer's name on it and the price quadruples because they know they have a captive audience.

I will admit that newer cars aren't found broken down on the side of the road anymore, but when I do come upon one, I personally get frustrated from not knowing what's wrong or being able to find out. I have many scanners and tools but I don't carry anything with me on short trips. What's the point? Even if I did diagnose something on the side of the road, I'm not going to have the parts to fix it. Ya gotta call the tow truck anyhow. Perhaps that's what you read when I said I can't fix something.

Build me a simple car that doesn't cost more to fix than the monthly loan payment and I'll consider owning it. Allow me to choose between new and used parts when I need one and I'll be grateful. And if that car costs less than the lunar lander that landed men on the moon, I would expect that it wouldn't have more computer technology than that lander had. Put common sense back into at least one model and I'll buy regardless who builds it.

With a warped philosophy like that, I am shocked that anyone would allow you to teach anything. After all, you do make a big point of telling everyone in every question how you WERE some kind of instructor. Thank God you weren't preaching that nonsense around anyone I know. It's bad enough that you are getting away with it here.

Cardiodoc never said you couldnt fix anything i said you were complaining about how hard it was to fix the newer cars.That was one of your arguments for the user to get a classic car.Also the GM EV1 was lease only in california and airzona which i mentioned.The reason it was lease only was so they could take them back anytime they wanted.So no one could say i want a million dollars if you want my car back.Also the cost was very expensive to lease it.They wanted 5,000 due at lease signing and 750 a month.If you already had leased a EV1 you had the option to lease a lead acid car for 134. A month which was relistic the range on the lead acid was 50-60 miles and the max range on the nickle metal battery i saw was about 140.But on the nickle metal the batteries got so hot from driving the batteries had to cool down for hours before it would start charging.So unless you had a nickle metal car the range was unpractical.But nickle metal hates the heat i saw a nickle metal car take well over 12hrs to charge because the batteries got so hot from driving.The lead acid cars hated the cold i was talking to a engineer that said in michigan he was driving one in the winter the his range gauge went from 50 miles to 3 miles in a couple of mins.One of the reasons they didnt continue making the cars was the cost of repairs gm lost well over billion dollars on that car.The price to replace all 26 batteries in the main battery back was about 7,000 dollars.You say oh that probally didnt happen that often.I replaced so many batteries one to three and all 26 a lot.The average repair when they came in was 800-1200.You were talking about over computers and say you wanted them to keep making that car lol.In 1997 they had 7 computers and over 500 codes it was a nightmare nit your average person could fix these cars.Saturns didnt have a body control module untill 2000 model year they were pretty low tesch when it came to that.Even the later ones wernt as bad as your describing these other cars.

Sorry. That's all I knew about those cars so I never brought the subject up. I DID know there was more to the story, just didn't know what.

Wrenchtech, instead of calling me warped, please be more specific, then allow me to have my own opinions. You have never agreed with one single thing I've said, and you're the only person here who actively expends energy in searching for a reason to find fault with every single reply I post. Other people have pointed that out too. Am I to embrace the high cost of replacement parts? Am I to tell independent shop owners to find a new line of work because some manufacturers are trying to cut them out of the business? Am I to rave about the benefits of having an HVAC computer control her system when it can't be reprogrammed because she doesn't have the money to make the AC system work? Not everyone can afford a new car every few years. Some single mothers trying to make a better life for her and her kid have to get to school or work in a 15-year-old car. What will people like that be driving in 15 years? Cars that require a new computer to fix something, IF it's still available and has to come from the dealer, and repairs will cost more than the car is worth.

Explain to me why adding a computer in the middle of a system that previously performed the exact same task without one makes logical sense. Just because you CAN doesn't make it better.

And don't knock my teaching until you've sat in on one of my classes. I was rated every year and was compared to a national average, and I consistently blew them out of the water. Student, supervisor, and employer satisfaction where the highest the school had ever seen for an automotive instructor. I HAD opinions but I didn't TEACH them, in fact I rarely brought them up. You seem to think only yours are right and everyone else is wrong if they don't agree with yours. I better call you to find out what color car I want next because I'm sure you won't approve of my choice. I'm too stupid to know what I like.

Every teacher knows you don't start with the most complicated circuit, system, or product, then work your way back to the simple parts that make it up. You always start with the simple, the basic, the easy-to-understand, then once that is understood, you build on that knowledge which can be applied to any car. You work your way up until you've added computers, new manufacturing techniques, and other new technology, but you have to understand what came before to understand why new is better. You can't appreciate the benefits of electronic fuel injection if that's all you've ever known. You won't appreciate electronic ignition if you aren't at least told about breaker points. Alternators have no value to a car owner unless you know why they're better than old DC generators. I don't have to teach those out-dated systems, but I do have to talk about them.

Wrenchtech, you whined about Chrysler putting the voltage regulator inside the Engine Computer. I can justify that with some sound reasoning. You don't snivel when GM puts the Body Computer inside the radio so the customer has to get that radio fixed at a much higher cost than buying an aftermarket replacement. At least I'm consistent in my complaints with unnecessary technology.

Everyone here has made some very good arguments about why a newer car is a better choice for a first-time car buyer. I can't argue with most of the comments if the goal is to drive the car. But my comments only pointed out to a person who said he wants to learn to do some of his own repairs that you want to start by learning the basics. The rest of you want to throw him to the wolves with high technology and the multitude of chances to do some real damage to the product he's trying to fix. Sure the older cars are less convenient, and they don't run as smoothly, but how many of you learned how to fix cars by starting out on the most complicated one out there? I'll guarantee every one of us who started out, started by sweeping floors and doing oil changes. No one starts out on the first day of their career changing the timing belt on an interference engine.

If this question had been asked by a girl who wants a safe car to go back and forth to college, I'd have recommended the newer cars, but all she's going to do is put gas in it. That's not the case here. Look at the person. Look at his goals. Look at the fact that he's even asking the question. All the rest of us have owned and driven old cars and new cars. If you like new technology, wonderful; you have a world of products to choose from. I am not comfortable in a new car with its unnecessary technology, and I'm not alone. I have no choice but to keep my '88 minivan on the road as long as possible. The mere fact that Drew is asking this question suggests he might share a few of my opinions so that's what I explained.

I came suspiciously close to rear-ending someone on the highway a few years ago because I looked down to stuff a CD into the slot. Now we have people on cell phones and not paying attention. Add in all the cool touch-screen stuff coming out now and one can only wonder if the person coming toward you knows you're on the road. When did being entertained become more important than driving responsibly, and when did it become acceptable to point out that I'm out of touch for putting common sense ahead of technology with no positive benefit?

You always have to get in the last 500 words so I'm going to let you have them. I'm done with this.

just a footnote here, if anyo fyou ever worked in engineering for a few years you would understand why modules are used instead of relays. Alot of it is because of people wanting to hvae the dvd's, antilock brakes, and all theother toys. A battery can only hold so much power so they put a module in so it will use less voltage. Plus governtment regs for all the stuff that has to be put in like crash stuff and mileage as well as emissions, can't be done with a relay, they don't react fast enough.

I have met many engineers over the years that design all differnet parts of the car.I asked about all the crazy technology that goes into the cars.They told me every year the consumer expects something new in the car so they have to scramble to make it happen.There also competing againist all the other car manufactors.So there is no time to perfect it before its released so.From the begining of the first cars this has been happening.Look at the first fuel injection piece of junk and throw the goverment regulations emissions and safety standards in the mix perfect storm.Also throw in over bearing boss ceos etc that are pushing to make things happen.Also there always trying to refine things make them better reinvent the wheel so to speak.Thats never going to change this world is only becoming more advanced for the better or the worse.Heres a great example tvs used to last 20 or 30 years sometimes.But now they use a lot less power and have a unbelivable picture.Do they still last 20 or 30 years no do people by a tv for how long it lasts?Nope they look at the price and how the picture looks.There always looking for the next best thing everything cars cell phones etc.The consumer sets the trend for the market.Even the prescription drugs come out before even being tested properly.Then within 5 years of the new drug coming out you hear a informical about a law suit againist that drug killing people maming people one way or another.

It's okay guys. Don't criticize each other. As I said, I really appreciate everyone of your answers. I'm glad you guys took the time to educate me a little and showed me a little bit of the car world that I'm about to enter. I'm an young adult in 2012, of course I love technology. I spoke with an elderly lady, maybe in her late 50's or early 60's, her husband had a classic car. She basically supported many of the things Caradiodoc has posted. She pointed to a modern Prius and said that if it were to break, it would have to be in the shop and the cost of the repair wouldn't be so nice, that is if you don't have the money. I understand that everyone of you guys speak from educated backgrounds and experience. As controversial as it is, I think I will go with the classic car. I live in Fresno, California. It does get heated in the summer, and rains in the winter. Sometimes the weather could be a little bi-polar. I don't plan on moving. There is absolutely nothing wrong with modern cars. It's complex and it's hard to diagnose and expensive to repair. I have no car experience at all. Never drove a modern or classic car. You see? It's a hard decision. The elderly lady told me to go with what I want. She didn't convince me to buy a classic. Like I stated before, because of the simplicity of the classic cars, I think I will go with it. I may have to go through hell with it. Every car owner has at least one nightmare with their cars. It doesn't even matter if it's classic or modern, it's prone to have problems. Keep in mind that I'm not favoring anyone of you guys over the other, I'm simply choosing what I think will be best for me in my circumstance.

You're in California. Have you looked into where or not this can can pass emissions inspection? That could be a real issue with a classic car.

You mean like smog checks? I will ask the owner. I believe that it wouldn't be a problem since the owner could use the car on road.

Thats another good point wrenchtech 1974 is the cut off for smog exempt in california.So 1975 and up needs smog checks every 2yrs.

Good luck and be sure to have it checked out first. If you're like many car owners you will appreciate moving up to something newer in the future but you'll always have fond memories of your first car.

Saturntech9 made the best case for new technology. We're always moving forward. Hmac 300 also has valid points, but again, my complaint is not with anti-lock brakes, air bags, fuel injection, emission controls, and other things that really have a legitimate benefit. Bring it on, but let me get trained on it and work on it without having to work at a dealership. What I don't appreciate is when the technology is unnecessary. Computers running backup lights is the example I always refer back to. All that's needed is a switch, not a switch to run a computer to turn on lights.

I can fix tvs, dvd players, and vcrs because I can buy parts and service manuals, . . .until those items appear in cars; then suddenly everything is top secret and locked up. GM and Ford had some of the best radio service manuals in the industry until they chose to not share them with independent shops in the '90s. Sorry, didn't mean to get off topic again.

You'll notice I have never even mentioned the throttle-by-wire systems which concern me. I know there is a legitimate benefit to that system, (emissions-related, I think), but I can't remember what it is. I've driven cars with that system, they performed fine, but until someone can prove they're safer than a throttle cable, I choose to not own one. I know the lawyers are involved in every aspect of designing new products so if they are satisfied the systems are safe, I should be too, but I'm not so far. Hope that doesn't open up a whole new can of worms.

Remember Drew, you can come back here with any questions. Maybe next time we'll take the time to give you a longer answer with more detail!

As far as the throttle by wire the first time i actually got a close look at them is when i went to factory training for the saturn LS model in 2000.Saturn first used it on there 3.0L V6 which is the same engine the used in the caddy catera model with a different intake and its front wheel drive mounted unlike the caddy.I ask about the safety of it to the instructor he told me to shove a a screw driver handle in the throttle plate to hild it open like it stuck open.I did and the computer retarded the timing so much your not going to speed out of control.You have two tps sensors in the throttle body and two throttle pedal position sensor that cross check each other.So a lot of safety is built in.I can only speak for gm cars on the throttle by wire and i feel completely safe driving those cars.

Thank you. I heard too that the motor running the throttle blade was strong enough to break a pencil. I guess a I rely too much on a comment a Chrysler instructor shared years ago when they came out with flex-fuel vehicles. The sensor in the fuel system had just two probes and little if any circuitry. Testing showed that if extrapolated out, that sensor should last 400 million miles. She said, "you know what that means, . . . there's going to be a rash of failures". Very entertaining and knowledgeable instructor. She was a former Cadillac mechanic and really knew her stuff.

Still don't know what the benefit is with the system but it seems to me it had something to do with the throttle holding steady on bumpy roads while a cable would be vibrating in response to your foot on the gas pedal, then the computer would be constantly adjusting in response to the bouncing throttle position sensor voltage. I can still recall hearing old-timers grumping about "them new-fangled alternators" that came out in the '60s, and how they didn't understand them. I suspect before long this will be another old technology too.

Yes the throttle by wire is ran by a throttle servo which is very strong.Also throttle by wire doesnt have to use a idle air control valve it just uses the throttle servo to adjust the throttle plate for the correct idle rpm.

I'VE BEEN OUT OF POCKET FOR A WHILE...IF I HAD JUMPED IN EARLIER, YOU WOULD WOULD SEE THE LOGIC IN......NOT GETTING A CLASSIC CAR.

CARS ARE JUST TOO LOW ON THE GROUND....EVEN OLD ONES ARE COMPLICATED TO AN EXTENT.....BODY/ TRIM ALONE!

YOU DON'T WANT ONE!

WHAT YOU WANT IS TO OWN IS WHAT YOU'VE ALWAYS DREAMED OF OWNING....JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE HAS DREAMED OF.

I HAVE TWO---ONE IS A '77 THE OTHER IS A '46.......AFTER 36 AND 66 YEARS......THEY STILL TURN HEADS........FEMALES SWARM ON 'EM LIKE LOCUSTS!

I'M 48....HAVE HAD FIVE CJs PRIOR TO THESE TWO, NEVER HAD A CAR FOR A PRIMARY DRIVER....HAD THESE TWO SINCE THE EARLY 90s

MY DAUGHTER WAS PROFICIENT IN DRIVING "WILLY" AT AGE 10, FOUR WHEEL DRIVE (USING IT), CHANGING TIRES, MINOR MAINTENANCE (INCLUDING AN OIL CHANGE).....SHE'D MUCH RATHER SHOW OUT BY HAND-CRANKING HIM, THAN TO USE THE STARTER.

NAME ANOTHER RIG THAT HAS SORTA KEPT THE SAME/ SIMILAR LINES FROM 1940-PRESENT DAY?????......72 YEARS OF DOMINATION

DON'T LIKE SEAT BELTS?....."WILLY" (MY '46) DIDN'T COME WITH 'EM...AIN'T GOTTA HAVE 'EM

LONGEVITY....SIMPLICITY....LOVED BY ALL (ENVIOUS PERSONNEL HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO LIE).....HOW CAN YOU GO WRONG?

IF YOU HAVE MADE AN UNWISE DECISION ALREADY......IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO JOIN OUR TEAM......THAT GOES FOR THE REST OF YOU TOO!

THE MEDIC

LOOKS LIKE A COUPLE DIDN'T MAKE IT

HERE'S A TYPICAL MASSIVE "NEWER VEHICLE" COMPUTER GLITCH

(YOU WILL NOT FIND IN A CLASSIC CAR)

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/1999-ford-f-150-99-front-brake-job-leads-transmission-failure

I'VE BEEN FOLLOWING THIS ONE, I ALSO PRIVATE MESSAGED THIS FELLER

EVEN AFTER HIS ON GOING BRAKE PROBLEM WITH A REALLY LOW MILEAGE SUNDAY DRIVER TRUCK---HE NOW HAS WHAT LOOKS LIKE A SUDDEN AND MYSTERIOUS COMPUTER PROBLEM, AFTER TAKING IT IN FOR THE BRAKE REPAIR (HE TAKES IT TO THE DEALER FOR ALL SERVICE)

HE TOLD ME THAT AFTER THE *** 2 WEEKS + *** THEY HAVE HAD IT FOR THE BRAKE AND NOW "GLITCH".....THEY TOLD HIM IT WAS FIXED, AND TO COME GET IT.

HE SAID HE DROVE IT OUT OF THE PARKING LOT AND WHEN HE HIT THE STREET......HIS GAUGES GLITCHED UP, IT WOULD NOT SHIFT OUT OF 1ST GEAR, HE SIMPLY DROVE IT BACK INTO THEIR LOWER DRIVEWAY AND HANDED THEM THE KEYS.

SO NOW THAT'S TWO TO THREE SUNDAYS HE HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO DRIVE IT!.....ALL BECAUSE OF A BRAKE ISSUE TURNED SOUR!

HE ALSO ADDED THAT THEY ASKED HIM IF THERE WAS ANYONE ELSE HE'D LIKE TO TAKE IT TO?.........."The Experts" said this?????

I'M GUESSING IF "I" WERE DEPENDENT ON THE "DEALER".....THE NEXT PLACE I'D WANNA TAKE IT FOR A CORPORATE FIX WOULD BE "RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT" OR "A COMPANY TRAINING FACILITY"

MORAL HERE, IS DON'T LET SOMEONE CONVINCE YOU THAT A NEWER, MORE COMPLICATED VEHICLE IS EZer AND CHEAPER TO FIX...AND PARTS ARE FASTER TO OBTAIN..........'cause it just ain't so!!!

WITH MOST OF THE '40s ON UP PRODUCTION VEHICLES, COMMON STUFF CAN BE OBTAINED WITHIN A COUPLE OF DAYS (IF NOT, RIGHT THERE ON THE SPOT). BIGGER LESS FAILING ITEMS, WITHIN A WEEK, THRU A PARTS STORE OR ON THE INTERNET.

PLEASE POST A PIC OF YOUR JEEP!

THE MEDIC

The only people that run and hide from technology are the people that don't understand it. I certainly wouldn't be taking automotive advice from a plumber that moonlights as an auto adviser.

LOOKY HERE!

DAYLIGHTS AT ADVANCE AUTO TOO!......THIS FELLER CAN DO IT ALL!

DECLINED "SUPER HERO" STATUS AS HE WAS TOO BUSY DOIN' WHAT HE DOES!

THIS IS A SORTA A PROTOTYPE OF A HOMEMADE AD FOR THESE MICROFIBER TOWELS WE HAVE AT THE STORE.....THEY'RE HIGH TECH!!!

TOOK THESE PICS WITH MY HIGH TECH CANON EOS T-3 I GOT FOR CHRISTMAS....AND STARTED COMBINING THEM

I HAVE'T HAD TIME TO FINISH IT UP WITH PHOTOSHOP (HIGH TECH PROGRAM ON THE COMPUTER)

THESE MICROFIBER TOWELS SORTA ABSORB DIRT AND TRASH AND WILL NOT SCRATCH YOUR BABY!

I WIPED MY MONITOR JUST ABOVE THIS ANSWER WITH ONE---WAH-LAH---'SORBED IT RIGHT UP!

YA'LL HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY!

(YOU CAN STILL SEND THEM PICS)

THE MEDIC

You cant post a link to a crazy we dont even know if its a computer problem could be a wire harness terminal tighteness issue or any number of other issues.Also its a uncommon not run of the mill every newer car problem.When i worked at the dealerships i would get all kinds of crazy problems to fix electrical computer drivability water leaks gotta love those lol.But was it the norm that every new car had these problems no it was more the exception.I had to fix all the cars the shop that everyone else in the shop didnt want to fix because they were too busy making money doing services or brakes etc.Or they just didnt want to embrace technology and learn how to fix it.Do i hate new cars because i have seen all these crazy weird issues that some of them have?No i dont i have owned 60'S 70'S cars my family as well and i had to fix and maintain all these cars for me and my family.I can tell you this i like a lot more now that i have a newer cars to maintain for me and my family members.I do miss my old camaro and caddy though but not as every day drivers as they were when i had them.As a sunday driver though i appreachiate the old cars dont get me wrong.But in most cases people who have older cars dont use them as every day drivers ethier unless they have no other choice.

I have to get in on this too. Ahhh, wait, never mind. This could be used to create 20 novels. All cars are good when they run but they all break. CJ, nice shirt. Is it really that bright red?

You know, the poor guy asked a simple question. It is his first car. My guess is that he is so confused at this point, that he is dusting off the old bicycle and saying the heck with everything.