2004 Chrysler Sebring P0301 code

I was thinking about getting both the crankshaft position sensor and the camshaft sensor?? What is the tooth?

Before I actually look up a picture for you, what size engine and body style, coupe or sedan?

[quote:5632bf7e5e="merlin2021"]Before I actually look up a picture for you, what size engine and body style, coupe or sedan?[/quote:5632bf7e5e]

I have a 2004 Chrysler Sebring sedan (not convertable), engine size V-6, 2.7

I show two locations for the crank sensor, on sedan it's on the left front side of the engine, on convert, it's on top right tranny bell housing. Cam sensor is on front of the cylinder head. The gear is the timing gear, not usually the problem, can be a problem if the magnetic ring gear is on the harmonic balance.
More research shows a higher probability it's the cam sensor or the target magnet that may have a chipped tooth. I will send the info to you. check the email! Target magnet may have been damaged!

Changed the crank sensor yesterday, cleared code yesterday, same code came back on this morning..

Should I even bother changing the cam sensor?

I noticed for the past 4-5 days my car starts a little strange (only in the morning though, the first start of the day), like it takes longer to start. I figured it was because of the fuel cleaner the Chrysler guy put in, but that gas ran out 2 days ago and I refueled with a new full tank of gas, still does it a little not as bad though.. Does this help any with figuring the problem out at all?

I'll go read the email Merlin sent, thanks Merlin..

[quote:4bae4eded0="merlin2021"]I show two locations for the crank sensor, on sedan it's on the left front side of the engine, on convert, it's on top right tranny bell housing. Cam sensor is on front of the cylinder head. The gear is the timing gear, not usually the problem, can be a problem if the magnetic ring gear is on the harmonic balance.
More research shows a higher probability it's the cam sensor or the target magnet that may have a chipped tooth. I will send the info to you. check the email! Target magnet may have been damaged![/quote:4bae4eded0]


Hmm... maybe I should get the cam sensor then...

Checked target magnet, it looks fine..

Hi guys! sorry its been a couple months without posting. I wanted to give you guys an update. Apparently the first guy that checked my compression on my car did not do it correctly. I took it to a different mechanic and this is what he found,

"Performed diagnostic tests & advise baseline test failed for MIL light and codes: P0301-cylinder #1 misfire, P0300-random cylinder misfire tech found that the vehicle had low compression in cylinder #1 at 120 PSI. #2-#6 cylinders are 180 PSI. Cylinder #1 is more then 25% below highest cylinders. Wet test of #1 is 170 PSI. #1 cylinder has bad piston rings."


Well it looks like I need new engine. What a pieace of crap this 2.7, V-6 Chrysler engine is. It started having problems at only 69,000 miles and their 7 year 70,000 mile powertrain warranty is void for me because the first owner was a rental car company. I got the car at only 25,000 so the rental car company didn't even have it that long, how could they do so much damange to the engine? I took really good care of it once it was in my hands, I changed the oil religiously at 3,000 miles and took care of all its regular maitenance.

So anyone who reads this PLEASE do not get a Chrylser with a 2.7, V-6 engine they are the crappiest engine in the Chrysler line. Heck, I wouldn't even reccomend getting a Chrysler period. Especially since they cannot stand behind their engines.

I'm not a Chrysler fan either...

Wow. I just discovered these postings. I am having the same exact problem with my Chrysler 2004 Sebring. Same cylinder too. I have way more miles than yours, though. 123,000 miles on it. Same engine except mine is a convertable. I also changed the spark plugs and changed the fuel injector.I will never ever buy a Chrysler again. In fact this is my first American made car as well. I was told I need a valve job on it. I am also not having any symptoms. This engine has overheated on me twice, both times for different reasons. The battery has died on it, I have an oil leak and to top if off, the fuel gauge is broken so I have to reset the trip meter every time I fill up with gas or the car dies. Wish there was a way to boycott Chrysler to get them to fix these engines for free. What a waste of $10,000 I paid for this lemon back in 2008. It is a cute car though... the shell of it anyway. It is the brains of it that are horrible. I may just live with the problem and get to pass emissions somehow. Or put a refurbished engine in it. Whatever I can do that is the cheapest option is what I'll do. Sorry you have had to go through this trouble with your Sebring and good luck to you. Good luck in selling it, too. Who will buy a car like that??

This is why Chrlser needed a bailout and Ford didn't!

I went on the internet yesterday and found there is a class action lawsuit against Chrysler that has been going on since 2007. It is for people who bought cars with the 2.7 V6 engines and had them die on them at early mileage due to sludge build up in the engine. Now, I don't have that problem, yet anyway. Mine is just the cylinder #1 misfire but after reading about how this particular engine has had so many problems I would recommend to anyone in this situation to buy another car! Even if you decide to replace the entire engine, you will need to put another 2.7 V6 in it as that is the only compatable engine for the Sebring. I will buy a japanese car next time like a Subaru or Honda. The Sebring is cute, but a joke of an engine and waste of money. It is really too bad for all the folks who bought one and had so many thing go wrong with it. The problem I have described here is just the tip of the ice berg with my engine. I have an oil leak, the gas gauge is broken, the car has overheated twice for different reasons both times, and then I had a situation where the car would not start and I had to keep replacing a 20amp fuse under the hood about every month or so to get it to start up again. I think the engine is haunted, frankly.

Thanks for your replies, I did infact end up chaning the whole engine, not just replacing the bottom half that was making the code appear, by replacing/rebuilding just the bottom part would of just caused more problems because the bottom would of been new and the top part of the engine (head) would of been old, so the old probably would not of been able to keep up with the new half, especially with this VERY fragile 2.7, V-6 Chrysler engine. Anyhow, changed it last year and its been running good, well its always been running good just had that PO301 code popping up all the time (couldn't pass smog because of it). I do want to sell this car because I hear the problem can come back and its such a sensitive engine, you have to change the oil right on or before the 3,000/3 month cycle, I hate it. I do have some leaks now since the engine has been changed and my mechanic is good because he will fix it and not charge me, so thats a plus. I just hate having to keep dropping my car off for a few days at a time.

Also, I believe there is something else wrong with the car now, the code PO300 code comes on, then after clearing it a month later it came back on with the code P0303, sounds like the same thing again except it doesn't come on as frequent as it did with the PO301 code did and its a different cylindar, ugg, I cleared it and it hasn't been back for 2 months but once it does come back on (because I'm sure it will) I'm not going to clear it and take it back to my mechanic. I'm lucky I have a good mechanic he does not charge to check it out and if its something in the engine he will fix it for a very reasonable price or nothing at all becaus they are the ones who put the new engine in it. I'm thinking it maybe be time to change the spark plugs andyhow, hope this helps someone who thinks about getting a "cute" car, you'd better make sure that "cute" car has a good engine!

wholly criminola, Lydiaa... You have been through hell and back with this car. If it is paid off, like mine is, you might just buy another used car after researching the best and most reliable car to get (as I am going to do) and then just use the Sebring as an extra car.
So you couldn't pass emissions because of the code P0301? I'll be in the same situation then. My registration isn't due for 6 months but I think it would be too early to get it down now. My check engine light happens to be off right now so I thought about running down to the emissions place and get it done while I can. But if the check engine light comes back on I won't be able to pass I guess. Who wants to pay thousands of dollars to get the light off just to pass an emission test?? I think there is something you can buy at an auto parts store to put in the engine that will make it pass.
How much did you have to pay to change out your engine if you don't mind my asking...and was it a refurbished engine or brand new?

I wish I could just go get another car, but currently I'm unemployed so that wouldn't be a smart decsion on my part, once I get a job I'm definatly getting a different car, for now I'm stuck with this one, hopfully I can find a job soon, good luck with that in this economy though, right...

I paid $2,753 total for the engine, $350 was the core charge so I got that back when they got my old engine and $103 was their service charge, no tax. My mechanic charged me $700 to put it in, so I paid a little over $3,000 for the engine and labor. The engine did come with a 3 year/100,000 mile warranty parts/labor. It was a remanufactured engine.

Okay, thanks. That at least gives me an idea of cost. And I like the fact you have a warranty for 100,000 ;miles. Will that be covered if one of the cylinders starts misfiring again?
Yah, I am employed but have been working as a temp for 2 years with no chance of being hired full time. Hope you get a job soon!

You might also use SYTHETIC oil, not synthetic blend but full synthetic, it does not slugde like regular oil does.

Guess what??? my lights back on but saying different cylindars now, here is my new thread I posted

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/2004-chrysler-sebring-p0305-misfire

Hi lydiaa. I feel your frustration, and I'm sorry I don't have an answer for you, but I feel so strongly about some of the comments I read, I just had to reply. I don't feel it's appropriate to hog your new thread to air my opinions, so I added them here. Please keep in mind I'm biased toward Chrysler because they are the only company that will still allow me to buy their radio service manuals. I also worked for one of four dealerships that is owned by a real nice family since the 1940s, and I often overheard how concerned they were for their customers when they thought no one was listening.

I have a different take on the bailout issue. Ford will not warranty a leak unless it causes a puddle on the ground. Chrysler will warranty any leak. Ford requires extensive testing including an oil analysis before they will even discuss the possibility of warrantying an engine. Chrysler is satisfied with the mechanic's analysis. Chrysler is much more customer-focused than most other manufacturers except Toyota and Hyundai.

Here's a different plan that you might give some thought to. Chrysler has a district representative who visits every dealership once per month. You can request a meeting with that person. At the dealership I worked for, the sales people were the customer's advocate and both sides worked together to find a solution. That rep has the authority to warranty stuff the dealer can't. The dealer can only follow the rules of the franchise. My district rep. even offered to warranty the sulfated battery in my ten-year-old Dynasty that hadn't been driven in the last nine years!

Rental car companies take especially good care of their cars, but they buy them at real huge discounts with a lesser warranty because they rarely keep them for more than 15,000 miles. You are also able to buy that almost new car for much less than normal but since the warranty transfers to the new owner, you get that same shorter warranty. Since any warranty has value, you can buy that car at a lower price than any regular trade-in with 15,000 miles. So the issue is not that they don't stand by their products. You will get the same shorter warranty with a Ford or GM product. Admittedly, you have the worst engine they've ever built, but as you said, it's running fine with no symptoms. Put the blame for the Check Engine light where it belongs; our elected idiots who make laws with no regard for the unintended consequences. They demanded highly sensitive systems since 1996 that detect the slightest little hiccup. You have wasted more gas and caused more pollution by running all over trying to fix that glitch than the teaspoon of gas that was lost due to any misfire.

The silly cash-for-clunkers law is another example of how stupid the people are in Washington. First of all, anyone who took advantage of that took a huge hit in the wallet because they only got a fraction of the dollars their old car was worth. They would have done better by just trading it in. Imagine their surprise when they found out at the end of the year that the dollars they got from you and me, the taxpayers, was considered income and they were taxed on it. Got'cha! One of the reasons GM was hurting so badly is they can only rip their customers off so many times before they don't HAVE any more customers, and that's what was happening. They had such a huge backlog of unsold cars and trucks and no way to get rid of them. Everyone knows that the highest pressure salespeople will be found at GM dealerships. If they don't move product, they're out of a job. Once you do buy a GM car, you find out that many dealerships have a one-hour minimum labor charge. In the case of my neighbor, that means being charged 0.8 hours to replace a head light bulb under warranty because GM only reimburses the dealer 0.2 hours for that job. Got'cha! How would you like to pay $82.00 to have a $10.00 light bulb put in for free? I've never heard of this one-hour minimum at any other dealership. Performing warranty work is when you're supposed to build customer confidence and loyalty, not bleed them for a few extra bucks. I had a boss once in the tv repair field who had the same attitude. "I have to rip them off as much as possible the first time because they aren't coming back a second time". Thank goodness he's out of business now. There's only about 100,000 people in my extended community and he ran out of customers too, just like GM did. I also worked for 30 years for a different boss who made a comfortable living for three people repairing tvs in a community of only 2,000 people. He did that by being honest and helpful toward his customers. People like him never make the news.

Many current owners don't realize how many computers are on new cars. Customers demand all kinds of junk that has nothing to do with getting you from one point to another. It isn't really necessary for her to be two degrees warmer than him, after all, it's winter. Expect to be cold. Dual zone heaters means a very unreliable, complicated computer is involved in blowing heated air into the car. I can do that pretty well with a slide lever and push buttons in my '88 model. Some drivers are too stupid to poke a power lock button, so a Body Computer is needed to do it for them at 15 mph. All of these toys add to the complexity of the car and the cost of repair. Imagine being handed an $800.00 estimate to fix the dead horn on your Ford? My van uses a switch to turn on a ten-dollar relay to blow the horn. Ford uses a switch to send a coded signal to the most complicated computer on the car, the instrument cluster. The cluster interprets that signal and sends another coded signal to the FEM, (front electronic module) which interprets that signal, then turns on the horn relay. Two computers involved in honking the horn! Explain how that benefits the owner?

GM got mad that I was repairing a half dozen of their radios each year. To prevent me from putting their repair centers out of business, starting with 2002 models they build the Body Computer into the radio. You can not replace it with an aftermarket radio. If you do, you won't have power windows or cruise control. You MUST have the original radio removed by the dealer ($), shipped by the dealer ($), repaired by the authorized repair center, ($$$$$), reinstalled by the dealer, ($), and reprogrammed to your car, ($). I charge $75.00 to repair Chrysler radios. You will pay over $400.00 to have your GM pile repaired.

GM has a very high failure rate with their computers. To prevent you from buying a used computer module from the salvage yard, new ones must be purchased from the dealer and they must be programmed to your car. From then on they will never work in any other car. Got'cha. GM is going to be a very profitable company for the next few years. There were too many people who said "never again" when asked about their GM vehicles, but there's a whole new crop of owners since the cash-for-clunkers law. All of them will be going back to the dealer for expensive repairs. THAT'S where GM makes their money.

On a related note, most owners aren't aware that mechanics can access every computer on the car with a scanner, and every one of those computers must talk with the Body Computer. If a computer has a different VIN programmed in than what is in the Body Computer, it won't operate. If the mechanic presses the "lock" function on the scanner, all of the up to 47 computers are tied to that Body Computer. You will never know if or when that was done until the day that computer fails. If the Body Computer fails and has to be replaced, ALL of the other computers must also be replaced. Got'cha! Imagine the cost of more than three dozen computer modules and the labor to program each one to the new Body Computer!

Sometimes various computers have to be "reflashed" with new software to address unforeseen problems or glitches. That is less expensive than replacing the computer so GM found a solution for that too. New software from most manufacturers is downloaded and installed over the internet. In an effort to lock out the independent repair shops, GM only makes that information available for three of their computers because the government mandated it. For everything else, you must go back to the dealership. Chrysler and Toyota allow full access to the independent shops for everything except the Security System. Who do you think has the customer's best interest at heart? Of course there's an annual charge to access the web site, and a small charge per download, but it's not much more than you're currently paying for your anti-virus software on your home computer. Hyundai allows full access to their web site to anyone for free including all downloads. Only GM ties everything up to protect their dealers.

The bottom line is I understand your frustration with your car, but boycotting a manufacturer only seems to be mentioned when it's Chrysler. I see the same kinds of problems all the time with ALL brands of cars. No one ever talks about boycotting GM or Ford. Chrysler's business practices toward their dealers and their customers is a whole lot better then GM's and Fords, and it's probably why they aren't as profitable. I could go on about Ford's "killer" cars with steering linkages that fall apart, wheels that can not be aligned so 15,000 miles is the best you will get on a set of tires, (but they ride nice on a test drive, so you buy that car), Got'cha! Or what about all of their safety-related recalls? Have you forgotten about their exploding gas tanks that would have cost them ten bucks per car to fix? How about the exploding tires? Their ignition switches with contacts that are so cheap, they have caused numerous house fires long after the engines were turned off? They're keeping that one pretty quiet. One was caught on a security camera catching fire two hours after the owner arrived at work. Things like these problems always seem to get dismissed by Ford and GM fans when arguing about brand loyalty but they scream the loudest when it's a different manufacturer with a problem. The defect or the poor design isn't what I take issue with; it's the manufacturer's response to the known problem that frustrates me.

The list of problems with newer cars is mind-boggling. Most of it is due to the addition of all of the silly computers and much is due to the greed of the manufacturers. Isn't it funny that little Chrysler has the fewest safety recalls, is one of the most customer-friendly, and is the most picked-on and least profitable company?

caradiodoc

caradiodoc,

I read your post. I feel like boycotting ALL American made cars after what myself and Lydiaa have been through. This is the FIRST American made car i have ever owned and I get this... My Chrysler has an oil leak, the gas gauge doesn't work, it's overheated on me twice for different reasons, for a long time the engine would cease to start and I would have to replace a tiny little fuse under the hood each time, and then the check engine light came on with the cylinder misfire. I swear the car is haunted!! I have owned a Honda and a Mazda and never had problems with any of them. My ex-husband swears by Subaru and that will be my next car. I paid $10,000 for this 2004 Chrysler model back in 2007 and thank heavens it is paid off. Don't get me wrong. It is a cute little convertable and I love it (the body of it, that is). I now see monthly car repairs as my new car payment. It has 124,000 miles on it and after reading about this lawsuit I am lucky it's lasted that long. These computers they have on cars now seem to cause more problems than not.
Here is the irony... I no longer have the little fuse problem... why? I don't know. I put the same amp in there every time. I still carry amps (I think 10 or 20 amp fuses) with me just in case which is a good idea. But now my check engine light is off. All I did was replace the fuel injector (which made the car run awful) and then had the mechanic put the old one back in again! ??? Like I said before, haunted.... But at this point I will just continue to drive it because it runs fine just like Lydiaa was talking about. It is just the check engine light coming on....
RoperLK

I agree with you RoperLK, I don't really care for any of the American made cars. Chrylser knows they have this problem with their 2.7 engines and they are doing nothing to fix it. My husband has a Nissan Frontier and alot of the Nissan Frontiers were having radiator problems and guess what Nissan did, they extended their warranty for all radiators on the Frontiers. Now THEY stand behind their cars, unlike Chrysler does...

And yes RoperLK, these cars are indeed haunted. My light magically went off, I know its still stored in the computer though, so off to my mechanic this a.m. "Again"!

Hey Lydiaa
Well, let me know what he says... maybe we need to get a paranormal investigator to perform a exorcism on our cars, LOL! At least our cars are running well and it is just the annoying light that keeps coming on. I'd rather drive with it on, than pay $1,700 to fix it when it may not need it. That is the quote I received to have a valve job done on it.

I can't argue with anything you guys said, and I'm sorry for your experiences, but keep in mind there are two totally different cars with the same name. The Sebring convertible is built in Mexico. The Sebring hardtop and its twin the Avenger are Mitsubishis that Chrysler buys from Japan and puts their name on so you actually already have a Japanese car.

Working in the repair department, I got to read on the repair orders the things customers complain about, and 95 percent of those things were only because it was still under warranty. They weren't such big problems if the customer found out they'd have to pay for the repairs. Wind turbulence over wiper blades and tire noise were my favorites. No one would have dreamed about complaining about those things in the 1960s but today we demand quieter and smoother with more complicated toys, and lots and lots of cup holders. A base model car today has more stuff on it than a Rolls Royce from the 1960s. There were no delayed wipers, just a three speed model to upgrade from the standard two-speed. GM had a two-speed automatic transmission, today we have six and eight-speeds because even four isn't enough complexity. Of course the problems all started when they hung computer controls on it. The slightest glitch from a sensor was enough to send the computer into convulsions. Even Chrysler-haters admit Chrysler had by far the toughest and most reliable automatic transmission from the 1960s through the early 1980s until they started hanging overdrive units on it to increase fuel mileage.

All older mechanics know what a piece of junk the Plymouth Volare was. It just about sealed Chrysler's fate, but mine cost me $90.00 (in 1980 dollars) for repairs, oil changes and air filters in the first 32,000 miles. Since then it has been parked and stored to keep it nice. Ma had the twin '78 LeBaron wagon that had more trouble in the first 40,000 miles, then no trouble at all for its remaining 190,000 miles, so how do you decide if it was a good car or not? The selling dealer, (no longer in business), refused to cover a big part of the early problems under warranty, but it was handled under warranty by a different dealer who did not sell her the car. That's the same dealer I bought my Volare from and eventually worked for ten years later.

Next she bought that dandy '88 Grand Caravan. It's still my daily driver up here in WI where we throw a ton of salt on an ounce of snow. After 224,000 miles, I had the first no-start condition caused by a $19.00 part that took well over five minutes to replace. My fault though. It was intermittently cutting out for almost a year before I decided to look at it, so I can't say I didn't have fair warning. Now, that old rusty trusty van has one computer. It runs the engine. There is no anti-theft system to keep it from starting. We all know that most systems are very effective at keeping owners out of their cars. The tough little hydraulically-controlled automatic transmission has had one fluid and filter change in its lifetime, and I use the van regularly to drag around an enclosed tandem-axle trailer that's bigger and heavier than the van itself. Try doing that with any newer minivan or even an SUV.

Ma's newer van, a 1995 Grand Caravan is full of computers. It has no dome lights because of a defective Body Computer. Tee hee hee. My van uses a three-dollar door switch to turn the lights on. Of course hers stay on for ten seconds, (well, they used to), after closing the doors so you can see to put your seat belt on. I can do it in the dark, but I can also turn the light switch on if I have to. I don't need a computer for that. Hers has a computer-controlled transmission, . . .the third one in fact. That newer van would explode before it could drag my trailer to the end of the driveway. So much for newer cars being better quality.

Here's a few things I wish everyone knew when looking at cars, but the salesmen won't tell you:

Volkswagen: Since the early 1990s the radios have a code that must be punched in after the battery has been disconnected or run dead. That code is not recorded anywhere and the dealer has no way of getting it. If the owner forgets it or is no longer around, that radio is worthless and will never play again. You must buy a new one. On newer models with the unbelievably stupid "throttle-by-wire", there is no simple common sense throttle cable. Instead, a sensor on the gas pedal tells the computer how much to turn the motor on the engine to open the throttle blade. Ever hear of the Toyota lawsuits over "stuck throttles"? Same system. We didn't have these problems until we added a silly computer to replace a trouble-free cable. This is just begging for lawsuits. If you run the battery dead or disconnect it to replace it, you're done. Even if the engine starts it won't come off of idle and it won't come out of "park". Drag it to the dealer with a tow truck to have "minimum throttle" reprogrammed in with their very expensive equipment. They don't do that for free either. Got'cha! Chryslers relearn minimum throttle while it's being driven.

Honda: Dandy little cars, but be aware the scheduled maintenance includes replacing the timing belt at 75,000 miles. That repair costs about as much as two car payments. Problem is the belts typically break at around 65,000 miles. Being "interference" engines, that means some of the valves become bent from hitting the pistons. Now the repairs equal about five or six car payments. In an effort to copy what is perceived by the car-buying public to be good cars, the domestic manufacturers have copied this design and Chrysler also has some of these interference engines. They can develop the same expensive problems, but that timing belt rarely breaks before 150,000 miles. Of course the Chrysler owner will whine and snivel about poor quality. The Honda owner will gladly pay the repair bill because they know their car is of the highest quality. This engine design came about, in part, for better fuel mileage. Heck, my Volare gets 28.3 mpg consistently and doesn't even use a timing belt. It is 4400 pounds of chrome-plated steel that will flatten the new cars with styrofoam bumpers. (That is not sarcasm. Plastic is too expensive for bumpers on new cars).

Lexus: Nice car if you can afford it. Beware of buying a used one when the dealer only has the valet keys. They don't open the trunk or glove box. Replacement keys come from Japan with a new Body Computer. No $2.95 keys from the hardware store for you. Total cost of parts is $1500.00. Got'cha! This information is from an independent repair web site available only to mechanics and shop owners, and was verified by a high-level trainer from a national company.

Keep in mind most domestic cars built in the U.S are built with union labor which costs a lot more than at the foreign manufacturers. In Japan, management personnel earn twice what an assembly line worker earns, not millions of dollars. The government works WITH manufacturers to help them be competitive. In the U.S., our bureaucrats and manufacturers are adversaries. Cost of labor is high. Cost of regulation is high. Cost of producing one car is much higher than anywhere else. The big three have to do something to keep costs down or they won't sell any cars. The only place left to squeeze is the parts suppliers. They will jump ship and go to a different supplier that can save them a nickel, (no exaggeration), on a fifty dollar part. Shoot, Ford left four grease fittings off their cars in the late 1970s to save four nickels per car. That's huge when it involves millions of cars plus the replacement parts they get to sell later.

Chrysler: Went with the lowest cost supplier for minivan turn signal switches, then had all kinds of trouble with them. Funny thing is they had three part numbers stamped on them. The Chrysler number, one we don't know, and the third one was, . . . a Toyota part number! "Yah, Chrysler builds junk alright". They built it with Toyota parts which we know are high quality. How about the high failure rate of AC compressor clutches, . . . built by Nippendenso and used on a lot of Japanese vehicles. Every Chrysler owner has experienced the intermittent no-crank condition caused by worn solenoid contacts in the Nippendenso starter. That's the same starter used by Toyota. In fact, where GM builds 80 percent of their own parts and buys the rest, Chrysler builds 20 percent of their parts and buys the rest, often from Japanese suppliers, so why do they have such a high parts failure rate? I thought Japanese stuff was so good.

Nissan: It's dandy they extended the warranty on their radiators but I find it interesting that that is perceived as a positive thing. Why are they having problems to begin with? Had Chrysler done the same thing would you be heralding them as an outstanding company too or would you berate them for building a poor-quality radiator in the first place? Most owners, after receiving free repairs, would still be grumpy because they were inconvenienced and had to take the time to bring the car in for service. The people behind the service counter hear that whining all day long, and they still are able to force a smile when you walk in.

Suburu: I have no negative opinions to share. The only "bad" thing I ever ran across wasn't really that bad. It involved a former student misinterpreting the unclear aftermarket service manual on a computer screen, which we hate. I'm mildly amused at the spare tire over the engine, but hey, at least it has one. Full-size, I mean.

Pontiac: "We build driving excitement". That wears off when the first payment comes due. What I don't understand is where my students get the money for the repeated $800.00 repair bills every six months.

Don't even get me started on the Ford "killer" cars with steering linkages that fall apart or the GM front-wheel-drive cars where occupants can't survive a 45 mph crash. These are regular occurrences, not isolated incidents, but they don't make the news. Chrysler had the unbelievably tough Shadow and Sundance. Those were like little ostrich eggs. You couldn't bust 'em in a crash, . . . so now we have the Neon pile that doesn't get much better fuel mileage than my Volare which weighs twice as much.

I could go on but that isn't going to solve any of your problems. I dislike all new cars and will never buy another one unless I can find one built with common sense instead of technology. "Technology is neat, but we're way outpacing our need for it". I don't need my behind to be toasted in winter. It's only cold for a few seconds. I don't need remote start. I'm not so lazy I can't walk outside to start my car. If I was, I shouldn't be living with asthma in WI! I can lock my doors by pushing a button. I like power windows and I don't mind holding the button until the window is all the way down. I'll decide for myself how long I want the dome lights to stay on, thank you. You can keep your Body Computers. Shoot, I can even switch the day / night mirror myself. I know when I drive to town, everything will still be working when I get home.

Sorry for carrying on so. I understand most of you just want one car that works properly. Believe it or not, I want the same thing for all of you. The difference is, from my past experience as a mechanic, tv repairman, and automotive instructor, I've seen the industry from a different perspective than that of a car owner, . . . and I'm not happy with what I've seen. The industry has the capability to build clean, reliable, economical cars, but they have us convinced we need more toys and technology. Are we really so lazy we need motorized sliding side doors? How DID we survive in the old days when we had to pull the lift gate down with our hands? Few people realize there was more computing power in a basic late 1980s car than there was in the lunar lander that dumped people on the moon! And that 1980s car was primitive compared to today's technological marvels. What is really amazing to me is that half of the stuff still works after a few years.

Before I go sit and pout in the corner, now that I got myself in a crabby mood, I have one parting suggestion. You might consider scrolling through the forums on this site and look for what types of things other people are having problems with. There are other web sites for various specific car models but naturally 100 percent of the questions and problems will be related to that one model. On this site you will get a mix of every brand and model. There are also a lot of experts here with experience on a lot of different brands and automotive systems. I know some of you have done that already while researching a specific problem, but it's also a dandy way to research the common reoccurring problems people are having with a model you might be considering purchasing. I really don't care what kind of car anyone buys. It just frosts my onions when that car develops one of its common, well-documented problems, yet it takes the owner by surprise. Car salesmen only tell you the good stuff and leave out the other half of the story. I'll tell you the bad stuff because that's what costs you money.

I hope you guys find some answers. I'll be back if I come up with anything.

caradiodoc

Okay caradiodoc, why do you keep posting on my thread, if you are not going to help fix my problem. If you want to discuss cars and how they are all made, etc, etc... go start your own thread. Don't mean to be rude but I just want to find out what is wrong with my car, not get the history on them...

That's why I posted here and not on your new thread. I wouldn't have added my opinions here if it looked like you were still using this thread to find an answer. My comments were in response to other people including yourself who started posting opinions of how bad certain companies are with having little knowledge of the good and bad of most of them. Every manufacturer has problems and every manufacturer has cars that go forever without major problems. Most people base their opinions on the severe isolated cases that make news. Mine are based on what I see at many different manufacturer-sponsored schools, and the complaints people have about their cars. I just followed along and added my opinions which are a lot different than those of the typical car owner.

I agree this isn't the forum for convincing anyone which car is best, but when people start bashing any company, I start rolling my eyes. I'm confused why you started a new thread. That really isn't fair to the people who are trying to help you because they will have to take the time to search for the previous history so they don't start sending you in circles with stuff you've already tried. Some of these guys answer dozens of questions each day after doing a pile of research on each one. Now they're going to start all over with your new thread.

My goal isn't to convince you that one brand of car is better or worse. But please understand that very often simply knowing WHY something was decided, WHY there's a certain policy, or WHY they did what they did can ease the frustration. Doesn't get the problem solved, but might make it easier to take.

I sincerely hope you find a solution. I actually DO have another suggestion although in this case I don't think it's a real good one, otherwise I would have shared it earlier. The Chrysler dealer has a scanner, (and many independent shops have aftermarket scanners), that have a record / playback feature. It will record live sensor data for about ten seconds after you press the record button while you're driving the car. The reason this isn't the greatest tool is your Check Engine light takes so long to turn on. You have to press the record button right away, then, because the data travels through the scanner's memory, the recording actually begins a couple of seconds before you pressed the button. Later, the data can be replayed to see what the sensors saw. The mechanic will look for a glitch or spike in an "input" sensor the Engine Computer uses to determine when to fire an injector or spark plug, and he will look at the "output" sensors that tell the computer how things went after the injectors and plugs fired. Those types of sensor readings won't set a fault code because they are simply doing what they are supposed to do, and that's report information. The computer already detected a misfire; we know that. At issue is developing a test strategy that is more effective than just replacing suspect parts. This test works better when the problem acts up every few minutes.

The Engine Computer detects misfires by measuring engine speed. The crankshaft's rotational speed decreases just a very tiny amount and just for a few milliseconds, but that is how we feel it in the car, (when we do), and the computer knows which cylinder is about to fire next, so it knows which cylinder is causing the misfire. If the fault code always indicates the same cylinder, suspect something related to just that one, meaning spark plug / ignition coil, fuel injector, or as appeared to be your case, compression. If the fault code is related to "multiple cylinder misfire", suspect something that is common to all cylinders such as fuel quality, fuel pressure, or input sensors. Even an exhaust leak before the catalytic converter can be a suspect. It can draw in air between the pulses of exhaust gas. That air gets detected by the oxygen sensor which tells the computer to add more fuel. That can cause a misfire. There are so many things like that and they aren't specific to Chrysler.

There's two reasons I didn't chime in with these suggestions a long time ago. First, I think there has to be a better way to diagnose the problem than what I've included now, and I explained why. Second, we don't like to but t into ongoing conversations unless someone asks for additional help. Now, however, in the spirit of trying to find a solution, I can think of two places to try. We have a very knowledgeable fellow who puts on high-level classes for people in my community. They involve diagnosing the one car out of a hundred that no one can figure out. He owns a specialty shop in Joliet, IL where they come up with the solutions. His only customers are other shops. There are many other shops like his all over the country. They sprang up because cars have gotten so complex and difficult to figure out. These shop owners share information with each other and they are in constant contact with the manufacturers. You might inquire about such a shop in your area. They will be in larger cities and where the state requires emissions testing.

The second suggestion would be to look for a Chrysler training center. Most states have at least one although many are being shut down in favor of miserable internet-based training. When the instructors aren't holding classes for Chrysler mechanics, they are the first people to research a difficult problem a dealer is having. You would be surprised at some of the unusual, and often simple fixes they discover. Often they will know the answer before we finish asking the question.

I hope there's some information you can actually use. Also, don't forget my comment about a meeting with the district rep. They might not have an answer, but they should know who will.

caradiodoc

Hey Caradiodoc

Again, Subaru.... That will be my next car, especially if they have a convertable. I live in Arizona and it is great to have one. As for my Chrysler Sebring which is a convertible, I guess it looks like I have a Mexican car, LOL! Okay, why aren't I surprised on that one? It is all starting to make sense!
But anyway, when I took my car in because of the cylinder misfire, the mechanic tested the compression and found that cylinder one was getting much less PSI than one of the other cylinders he compared it to. I think cylinder one had 124 pounds as opposed to 170 or something like that in cylinder 4. There was definitely a problem. Now, ironically the light hasn't come back on like I said before and all I did was replace the fuel injector, which didn't solve the problem, so I had him take it out and put the old one back in! It has been crazy. But what I've decided to do at this point is the proverbial, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" motto. Until the car dies or really starts running rough I will deal with the problem. The check engine light is just an indicator that something is wrong but I think at this point, I have done enough trouble shooting. Happy driving and cross our fingers the problem goes away...

Thanks for posting all of this. I have a 2004 Chrysler Sebring convertible. My check engine light just came on. I took it to autozone to find the problem. I had a P0301 code and P0128 which means the coolant temp is always low. The light came on a day after having the oil changed. After reading all this I am wondering if I should even bother trying to get the P0301 code fixed? The car is running normal. I don't want to do further damage to the car. I am on a tight budget. I passed emissions a month ago. Any advice?