Turns over but will not run

I believe it will only fit together one way. Take a look through these directions for filter replacement. These start a 03/02 production.

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2005 Mini Cooper S (R53) L4-1.6L SC (W11)
Removing and Installing/Replacing Fuel Filter Element (From Build Date 03/02)
Vehicle Powertrain Management Fuel Delivery and Air Induction Fuel Filter Service and Repair Removal and Replacement Removing and Installing/Replacing Fuel Filter Element (From Build Date 03/02)
REMOVING AND INSTALLING/REPLACING FUEL FILTER ELEMENT (FROM BUILD DATE 03/02)
16 14 018 - Removing and installing/replacing fuel filter element (from build date 03/02)


Necessary preliminary tasks:
- Remove fuel filter with fuel level sensor


pic 1


Disconnect lines (1).


pic 2


Release line from hooks (1) and (2).


pic 3


Release retaining hook (1) and pull off sensor (2) in downward direction.

Installation:
Pay attention to fitting of spring (3).


pic 4


Release cap (1) on fuel filter housing (2) by one turn counterclockwise (bayonet lock).
Pull off cap (1) towards top.


pic 5


Pull off fuel filter (1) towards top. If necessary, twist fuel filter in so doing.
Clean inside of fuel filter housing (2).


pic 6


Replace sealing ring (1).


pic 7


Replace sealing rings (1).

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Let me know if that is how it went together for you. Also, if you aren't getting anything to the engine, something has to be blocked or not attached. Otherwise, you would and should have at least low pressure.

Joe

Joe, I did not do any of the first steps, right before I replaced the filter.I watched a YouTube video on replacing the filter and they guy that made the video said that you could not remove the filter housing out of the tank because there was a lot of stuff attached to the filter housing, the wires and stuff, so just lift it up enough to change the filter, and that is what I did was just replace the the filter and 3 o-rings. So now after reading this I am wondering if by not removing it and going through the first three steps that I may have done something wrong.

I have to be honest. I suspect something came disconnected when you moved it. As a result, no fuel is making it to the fuel line. If you are getting the pump to turn on, it is pumping fuel, but nothing is making it into the fuel line, something must have come disconnected that you aren't seeing. That is the only thing that makes sense.

Are you able to fully remove it? Let me know if you need directions.

Joe

Joe, it looks pretty straight forward from the instructions and photos. I will give it a go and see what I can discover by removing it. Thank you for the pictures that will help a great deal.

Happy to help. Let me know what you find or if you have other questions.

Take care and I'll watch for your reply.

Joe

Joe, I was a little scared to release the wire connectors from the sensor. I did not want to pull the wires off or break something. I was able to unclip the rod that goes to the plastic part that holds the grey tubing that goes over to the fuel pump. I am guessing that rod is set up to keep that attachment from getting in the way of the float mechanism. Still does not start. I also can see that by releasing that rod attachment, the wires and removing the float you can pull up the filter canister and bring it up and out of tank to replace the filter. So what I am saying or asking is by removing it as the instructions you sent me, and then putting it back reversed would that help to make it run again? Sense I did not fully remove it. My only other option is to buy another filter to get the big o-ring (since you can not purchase separately) and take the filter housing apart to make sure on my last inspection of said o-ring to make sure the 3 times I checked it over two weeks ago that it was not damaged.

As far as the o-rings, if you checked them, I'm sure they are fine. Was anything disconnected?

Joe

As far as I could see. Both fuel lines are attached going into the fuel filter canister. Also the grey tubing that goes over to the fuel pump attached to the aluminum rod also attached to the float is attached, as well as the wires. It even sits better to go in the groove to reattach the sealing ring. That is why it is so mind blowing why the fuel coming out is only as much pressure as what comes out of a water hose. I am so stumped what else it could be.

What has me stumped is the idea that even though there is that much coming out, it won't make its way through the supply line, which you confirmed is clear.

Hang in there. I'm going to ask another tech for his opinion. Lets see what he says.

Joe

Joe, correct, I did take one more look at the fuel line that goes on the fuel rail. No fuel at all, not even a drop. Yes blew through the line. I was at the filter area with an air compressor and real thin air nozzle. My friend was at the front where the line opens at the rail. He did say at first it was not blowing a lot and that something kinda came out the line, at that point it came out full force after that. Cool, I will look for your response. Thank you.

Something was blocking it. Does it pump fuel through it now? If you leave that line disconnected at the rail and connect the pump, does fuel come through it? I'm wondering if something is in the rail causing a blockage.


Joe

The air compressor was done this last Saturday. Have not blown any more air through it.

Today I did just that left the line off the rail and cranked over the engine and tried the fuel with just the key on, but nothing at the end of fuel line which is strange because the fuel is coming out enough to at least pour a stream out the fuel line like it does at the filter top.

Have you connected everything and left the fuel line disconnected at the rail to see if any fuel would come through? If nothing does, then it's not coming out of the filter. Ugh! I wish I was there to help. It makes it difficult when I'm not. Sorry about that. The idea that there is fuel movement at the filter but nothing comes out of the rail makes no sense. Since you mentioned there is fuel coming out of the filter at the tank, it should come out of the fuel line at the rail (if the rail is disconnected). Please explain if I'm not clear. LOL

By the way, I hope you are well. The virus issues are getting really close to home.

Joe

Okay, you have fuel coming out of the pump connection correct? Then with the line connected at the pump and filter end you get no fuel out of that same line near the fuel rail? That says there has to be a blockage in the system someplace. A quick cheat to see if it's blocked is to use an air line to blow from the engine end of the line back to the pump connection. The line has a few bends and it is possible that something is sticking in one of the bends where the line is narrowed. Another method that works is to use string trimmer line and run it through the line, also from the engine end of the line. I have seen some odd things block a line, from pieces of fuel filter to parts of failed pumps. They will shift when the pressure hits them and act like a one way valve.
I see it runs okay on spray and that you have replaced the pump a few times, so it shouldn't be anything other than fuel delivery related. If it was in my shop I would likely try blowing out all of the lines or snaking them to see if there is something in there.

You might also try powering the pump directly using a couple jumper wires to the battery. Should be a White wire with a blue trace for battery positive and a Brown wire for ground. It is possible that there is an issue in the power feed where you are getting enough power to spin the pump, but not enough current flow to create full pressure. Corroded connections or wire damage or even something like a bad relay contact could cause that. If you just power the pump directly and suddenly have full pressure then it could be that. Just another possible problem.
As Joe says, we can work through this, just difficult when it's not in front of you.

Hello Steve, yes you are correct. Especially when cranking the engine, fuel should be getting to the rail if not blocked. One question I do have, is it normal for the pump when you turn the key on, but not to start, to pump and hum for about two seconds, then stop pumping?

The answer to the pump question is, maybe. Most pumps require a couple things to operate. One is a prime signal when the key is first turned on or the engine is cranking. That depends on the make and model, some prime for a couple seconds then stop, others don't prime until the ECM, DME, PCM sees a signal that the engine is cranking.
The other is usually tied to oil pressure IE the pump will shut off if the ECM, DME, PCM detects low oil pressure or the oil pressure switch opens and stops power to the pump. The idea there is to stop the pump if the vehicle turns over or in some way loses oil pressure, it tries to protect the engine.
In the case of your Mini, it uses a relay that is controlled by the DME to turn the pump on and off. Now this sort of makes it easier as there is no second power system. If the pump turns on and primes, the relay and power to it works. The issue then becomes one of the DME control. That is why I suggested the power bypass, if the pump powers up and pumps fine with direct power and has proper pressure and flow it's working. Then the issue is on the control side. A bad relay or wiring, or even an intermittent fuse.

You say you are hearing the prime cycle in the above question. That is good as it confirms that it has power and that the DME signal to control it is working and the relay is OK. However if the engine isn't starting the pump will usually shut off.

What usually happens in the start-up cycle is , You turn on the key, the power to the pump switches on to prime the system, this pressurizes the fuel system to compensate for any pressure it lost while it sat not running. Now you turn the key to start, this usually stops the priming cycle and the DME or oil pressure switch sees oil pressure along with the crank signal and decides it is safe to turn the fuel back on and the engine starts. It then monitors the oil pressure and key position, loss of oil pressure or turning the key off will stop the pump.

You say the engine would start on spray, here is a test you might try. Connect the fuel lines up, leave the connection to the rail off, instead put a hose on it so you can put it into a bucket or gas can. Now, turn the key on, wait a couple seconds for the prime. repeat this about 4 times. You should have gas coming out of the hose. If not then apply power to the pump, the easiest way to do that is to use a jumper in the relay socket. The image below should be what the connector looks like when the fuel pump relay is removed. Out of them all only 4 are actually used. In your car if you were to put a wire jumper between pins 30 and 87 the pump should stay on full time. If you get fuel out of the line now, in a steady stream, you can turn it off. If you don't get fuel out of the line, you have a blockage or something id damaged.

I will try the jumper in the relay as described soon. one question I have on the pump side is the wire connector that plugs in to the pump itself? If I unplug the pump could I use a voltohm meter to test to make sure there is battery power, instead of using jumpers to see about a stronger stream?

The issue with using a meter is that it only shows voltage, it cannot tell you if there is enough amperage to spin the pump correctly. One of the risks using a VOM to test. This is because you could have a single strand of wire the size of sewing thread and measure full battery voltage the same as if it was a full size battery cable. However that single strand isn't going to make the pump run at full power.

I am about to try that jumper between the 30 and 87, my question is the diagram is showing to 87’s. One in the middle and one above the one in the middle. Does it matter which 87 i put the other end of the wire from the 30 slot?

Okay, I did the jumper wire and it sprays really good out of the filter, with the fuel line disconnected. But place the fuel line back on the filter, nothing comes out of the line to the fuel rail. Going to go buy some trimmer plastic cord to run thru the line to see if there is a blockage in the line.

Sounds like a plan, keep us informed and remember to wash your hands.

Thank you, I have never remember washing my hands like nowadays. Pretty crazy time to be alive. Okay, now I am really confused. I got some weed whacker trimmer line. The connection at the fuel filter is a no go as it comes out of the filter and has a plastic 90 degree bend in the line. From the front of the car i can get about two feet in and can not get it to go any farther. However not sure that it is blocked, as using my air compressor and blowing air through the line the air comes out just fine. What the mind blowing part of it is that with the line disconnected at the fuel filter the gas comes spraying out. But when it is hooked up to the filter ( meaning the fuel line attached to filter), nothing comes out of the line at the fuel rail. As much fuel is coming out at the filter it should be showering all over the engine compartment. I can not understand why. I would have felt better getting that plastic line farther in the fuel line. That being said, the air coming thru the line with the compressor makes not sense at all. Using the jumper wire and having the pump constantly, that fuel should be getting to the fuel rail. I have a question, is there something attached to the fuel line any where between the fuel filter and the front of the car? Meaning like a sensor or gate, that would require the computer to read it in order to open up when the fuel pump is running?

Nothing in the line that I remember, Will the air go through the line in both directions?

It only blew air from the tank area to the front. I can try to go from the front to the back tomorrow.

This gets stranger by the minute. I had my son at the engine side of fuel line and not expecting any fuel, it shot fuel all over the inside of car. That is going to smell for a long time. I am just finishing lunch, after lunch will go and blow air now towards the front of car, then do the jumper wire and see if it will go to front of car now and as much as blowing back to tank.

Well that was a nasty surprise, but the bigger question, did your son laugh?? LOL You might be able to get rid of the smell if you used an ozone generator but I'm not sure I would want to use one with gas fumes in the air. You could try dumping a bunch of lightweight kitty litter in there and see if it will pull some of it out, then shampoo the interior real well. Or once you get it running again pay a detail shop to clean it.

For fuel to spray into the car, which end of the line were you blowing air through?

From the front, there was enough gas in the line while pumping, but it just does not come out the line by the rail.

When I blew from the front whatever was in the line went in the back of the car.

I spent some of the afternoon blowing air back and forth through the line. Then attach the line back to the filter, then I used the jumper wire to pump fuel for over a full 3 minutes and only got about a teaspoon of fuel up at the end of the fuel line by the fuel rail. As much fuel that comes out of the fuel filter should be coming out of the line. I am considering replacing the fuel line to rule out a blockage of some kind. But the amount of air that goes through it should have plenty up front. This is driving me nuts, makes no sense.

Okay, take a pressure gauge and rig up a connection to the filter outlet. Power up the pump and see what pressure you have right at the pump. It is possible that you got a defective pump and as soon as any stress is on it to pump it stops making pressure. I have also seen them come apart at the line inside the tank and act the same way.

I can see that is possible if the line was attached to the fuel rail that a defective pump could quit pumping under pressure. Makes perfect sense. With it being free of pressure and the line open (not block) it would still not make the the 8 to 10 foot to the front? I will see about rigging up a gauge system to see if I can get a reading of some kind.

Hi,

Have you had any luck checking the pressure?

Joe

It's possible that even with an open line there is enough restriction that it cannot push fuel through. The other possibility is that there is something acting like a valve in the line, a piece of plastic or debris that moves with the air pressure and it's prevented from coming out by the fitting. That's about the only reason I can think of other than something being wrong with the pump assembly itself which a pressure test should show.

Joe, I am not to mechanically inclined to do much more than what a book or video shows me online. I tried to figure out a way but to afraid to mess up the outlet on the filter canister. I was too afraid to mess up the filter canister and last week end chickened out removing it fully. That being said I and everyone I talk to in my family feels that the problem has to lie in the filter side of the tank. So this weekend I am planning on jumping in head first so to speak and tear it all down according to the pics and directions you sent me to see and make sure everything looks okay there. Then I am also going to get a new filter and o rings and go through that again to make sure the big o-ring is working. I will be in touch.

Steve, that makes sense what you are saying about the line. After I do what I described in my last post I am going to keep blowing both front and back on the line for a good long time to see if something may blow out of the line eventually. Will do that on Saturday and will let you and Joe know if I was successful, or still banging my head on a wall.

Sounds like a plan. I have to be honest, I have a feeling (like Steve mentioned) we are going to find the pump itself is bad, but what you are doing will help determine it.

Don't be worried when doing the work. What is the worst case that could happen?

Take care and let us know what you find.

Joe