Engine won't start

1997 CHEVROLET SUBURBAN
174,000 MILES • V8 • 4WD • AUTOMATIC
Avatar
ANOTHERVIEW
  • MEMBER
  • 20 POSTS
Since approximately March 2008 we noticed another problem which I describe as: Car cranks but won't start. After releasing the key it does a sputtering or diesel thing and sometimes some backfiring. For months it was occasional, but then no problem at all. Our guess as to why is humidity. When the weather would be very dry, then no problem.

First thing we tried was replacing the ignition switch thinking when in the start position ignition was not really happening. No improvement.

It was hard to troubleshoot because it seldom did the problem, but then a few weeks ago it went bad long enough to test some things. Fuel pressure was good, and spark (with tester) seemed good, but still no start. Chemtool down the air intake no help.

This time there was no starting it even trying for days. We noticed unplugging the MAF and air intake sensors did not produce any trouble codes, so replaced computer on August 28. Now it starts, but rough. Runs pretty well with MAF unplugged, so replaced MAF on Labor day, September 1. Then very happy with the operation of vehicle.

Drove several times, but not every day. September 9 went out in the drizzling rain to start it, but it was back to the original (see above) symptoms.

We have access to a good scanner for getting trouble codes.

Help appreciated.

If you have any questions to help troubleshoot, please send them.
Sep 10, 2008 at 10:29 PM
Advertisement
Avatar
MASTERTECHTIM
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 4,750 POSTS
since you have spark and fuel pressure the first thing that comes to mind is a faulty crankshaft position sensor, its located on the front on engine down low by the harmonic balancer, there is actually a gm bulletin for these sensor causing the timing to go full advance causing your symptom. use a ac delco sensor and get back to us if this does not fix problem. **this wont necessarily set a trouble code either.

Check this guide out

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-cranks-but-wont-start

Please run down this guide and report back.
Sep 11, 2008 at 5:44 AM
Avatar
MASTERTECHTIM
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 4,750 POSTS
i dont want to overstate the obvious but you already checked the cap and rotor and coil wire? just making sure
Sep 11, 2008 at 5:45 AM
Advertisement
Avatar
ANOTHERVIEW
  • MEMBER
  • 20 POSTS
We have done nothing to the car all week except try to start it. Tried Tuesday morning and throughout the day. Also on Wednesday and Thursday. All three of those days were raining or very humid.

Today was dry. We tried starting it early morning with no success; midday with no success; early evening with no success. Then tried around 10:00 p.m. and it started right up.

This seems to support our belief that it is related to humidity.

We bought the cap and rotor, but have not installed.

After it started we tried spritzing several things under the hood then starting the engine after each. Every time it started right up. The spritzed (with water) items included distributor, computer, MAF, and at least close to the harmonic balancer.

Maybe that helps?

???

By the way, it is supposed to be very rainy tomorrow.
Sep 12, 2008 at 11:49 PM
Avatar
ANOTHERVIEW
  • MEMBER
  • 20 POSTS
The humid air started coming over night and it started raining about an hour ago.

I went outside to start the Suburban.

Back to not working---starter cranks it, but no indication of starting.
Sep 13, 2008 at 8:46 AM
Avatar
ANOTHERVIEW
  • MEMBER
  • 20 POSTS
Today was a dry day (unfortunately we did not get enough rain yesterday for the plants and pond), and the engine started right up.

After that we replaced the distributor cap and rotor. We thought we had replaced them 18 months/15k miles ago, but based on the arcing patterns, now we think we didn't.

No rain in the forecast so it could be a long time before we know if it is fixed.
Sep 14, 2008 at 5:29 PM
Avatar
MASTERTECHTIM
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 4,750 POSTS
keep us posted
Sep 15, 2008 at 6:11 AM
Avatar
ANOTHERVIEW
  • MEMBER
  • 20 POSTS
We were surprised this morning.

Dry day--at least it seemed to us.

Around 7:15 tried to start.
Attempt 1: Turned key, cranked, but no indication of starting.
Attempt 2: Pressed pedal to floor then release, then moved key to start. Cranked and sounded like it would start, but didn't.
Attempt 3: Pumped pedal while key in start. Engine started. I left in high rpm for a few seconds, then foot off pedal; engine died.
Attempt 4: Started again same way, but left in high rpm for about half a minute, then slowly let down to 1k rpm. Idled fine, then let run until wife drove 30 min to her appt.

Leaving appt an hour after arriving: started fine, but died when put in reverse. After that ran fine.

I am thinking maybe replace the coil and ignition module????

PS: Wife insists I mention that when she was driving home volt meter was wavering around the 14v mark with variation +- 1volt. I think this is completely unrelated to the starting issues, but I put it becuase she wanted me to:)
Sep 15, 2008 at 6:16 PM
Avatar
MASTERTECHTIM
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 4,750 POSTS
sorry i have been away for a while but have you tried replacing crankshaft sensor yet? i have seen a numerous number of times that the timing gets advanced and causes it to try to start but timing is too far advanced it wont. also another one of my fellow techs has also reminded me of the problem of being a faulty fuel injector or injectors. especially when you stated you hac=d to floor it to start it. they actually redesigned the entire injection system so you have to replace all of them at the same time. i also have had to replace these many many times. a injector bal;ance test or bleed down test will verify. and where the injectors are is the fuel pressure regulator which is also common to leak causing it to flood when cooling down.
Sep 22, 2008 at 1:57 PM
Avatar
ANOTHERVIEW
  • MEMBER
  • 20 POSTS
Have not had any problems that I can say are related. Did have some cranking problems, but cleaning battery connections fixed that. I deem unrelated.

Because the weather has been dry, we don't know if the cap and rotor already fixed it.

Regarding your technical comments:

*We have not done the CPS or anything else because we have not had a lot of time, and we don't want to spend any more money until the weather gets more humid to see if it is already fixed.
*I would like to understand more how the CPS can break the timing. Everything I have read says that if it is broken there will be no spark.
*Regarding the fuel pressure regulator, you can see from the link at the top my history on that. I had the exact problem you described about 10k miles ago and we replaced it.
*About the injectors, I am intrigued about that being the problem. Next time we have the problem I should get it tested somehow.

Thanks.
Sep 28, 2008 at 4:56 PM
Avatar
MASTERTECHTIM
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 4,750 POSTS
the faulty cpa advances the ignition timing causing the problem and it's very intermittent. I have seen it cause starters to snap
Sep 29, 2008 at 6:30 PM
Avatar
DTMMIL
  • MEMBER
  • 3 POSTS
I am having a similar problem with my 97 suburban. It cranks over but won't start right away. Once it starts it will run fine. But the timing thing is getting me thinking. Sometimes after it cranks over it will buck like the timing is off. Can you give me more information on the bulletin about the crankshaft sensor. Mine has about 5000 miles on the plugs, new cap an rotor, newer MSD wires and an MSD 6AL ignition. any help would be great!!! Also it sat most of the summer as I ride motorcycle, now I need the suburban and I am pretty sure it won't start when it gets bitter cold out.
Nov 17, 2008 at 5:58 PM
Avatar
MASTERTECHTIM
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 4,750 POSTS
more common is for your extended crank is a weak fuel pump. to test fuel pump you need to hook up a amp meter in series from positive battery terminal to test lead for fuel pump which is a single red wire near fuse box under hood. it should have atleast 9 amps minimum, gm has found that if it has less than 9 amps then there is not enough fuel volume to open the injector poppet nozzles causing extended crank. the crank sensor problem is quite noticable as when you attempt to start truck it will seem like timing is severely advanced and have a hard time cranking over.
Nov 18, 2008 at 5:50 AM
Avatar
DTMMIL
  • MEMBER
  • 3 POSTS
Well I got myself a pressure gauge to check my fuel pressure. I hit the key and it jumps to 55psi, turns over for a while, starts and runs at 55psi. I shut it off and left the gauge hooked up and within about 10 minutes it dropped to about 40, 1.5 hours later it is at 30. I am assuming my check valve in the pump is bad and I need to replace the pump.
Nov 22, 2008 at 5:32 PM
Avatar
DTMMIL
  • MEMBER
  • 3 POSTS
Ok, so I left my gauge connected over night, expecting it to show zero this morning. It was back up to 50. I am assuming that the temp dropped or the motor cooled off and the pressure dropped to 30 last night, then this AM it was warmer again so it went back up. I hit the key, it jumped to 55psi and cranked and cranked. I could hear the battery starting to get lower before it finally started. This is really P#$sing me off. I am thinking I am going to put in the 4th set of plugs in the last 30,000 miles and try that.
Nov 23, 2008 at 8:29 PM
Avatar
MASTERTECHTIM
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 4,750 POSTS
just because you have 55 psi of fuel pressure does not mean you have enough volume. you need to perform the amp draw test. it will take 2 minutes to do and you will know for a fact if the fuel pump is good. ***this is a commonly known problem with this fuel system and unless you do a amp draw test you are wasting your time.
Nov 24, 2008 at 6:35 AM
Avatar
MILT1234
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
I have a 97 suburban also with 194000 miles and it has the same problem. When the humidity is high it wont start. I replaced the distributor cap, I did a tune up on it last summer and replaced the fuel filter in December 2008.
I tried starting it on 04/28 and 04/29/09 after a rainy night with no luck. Both days I had put it in the garage and all I had to do was put a blow dryer on high and set it where the air blew over the distributor cap or about 30 minutes. It started right up. Comeone suggested the coil might have a hairline crack and the moisture is causing it to short out, Going to replace the coil on 04/30.
Apr 29, 2009 at 10:41 PM
Avatar
MOTO250CR
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
I have a 99 Suburban that has been doing the same thing for the past year. I finally fixed it and I hope other people see this and save themselves some grief. I replaced the cap, rotor, wires, ignition module, coil, crank position sensor, unplugged every plug I could find and put dielectric grease in them...nothing worked. I finally read on one of these forums to replace the cap and rotor with a GM part. Having already replaced the cap, twice, with an AutoZone cap, I did not see how this was going to make any difference. The cap always looked dry when it wouldn't crank and I looked inside it. So I got a GM cap and rotor last week. It has rained three times, hard, since then and after sitting over night, it has cranked up every time. One note. You have to really crank on those screws to make the cap tight on the distributor. They will get to a point where they feel tight, but the cap will still move around. The cap should not move at all when you finish cranking on the screws. Just don't break the cap. I even put a little silicone where the plug comes into the distributor for good measure. These thing are obviously VERY sensitive to moisture and need a super tight seal. Good luck!
Dec 15, 2011 at 5:46 PM
Avatar
HMAC300
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 48,601 POSTS
if you have athe csi system your pressure should be 60-66 on the fuel pump not 55. if you have the sfi then it shoudl be 56-62 psi. If you have a 350 or 305 it's a 60-66 range. if you have the big block then you have the 56 lb one. Also check your coil wire for corrosion and resistance,it could be bad. One other thing some of tehse late 90 trucks had a fuel pump issue that eh harness near the tank was bad and the cure is to replace the pump with a new connector and about a foot of wire that should come with the pump. This causes an intermittent problem like you are haveing. also check the resistnce of the crank an dcam sensors, they can have to high a resistance and create problems like you are having and not set a code.
Dec 15, 2011 at 8:09 PM
Avatar
ROCKNROLLNITEMARE
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
I have a 1997 Chevy suburban, 1500 my wife was driving it home from the store the other day, and said it started to bog down like it was going to die? so she has not driven it since. this morning i jumped in it to test drive it, put my key in the ignition, and cranked it over, its turning over strong, however it's not starting? could it be the fuel pump? or the alternator? or maybe something else I haven't thought of? Thanks
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
RASMATAZ
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 75,992 POSTS
Do below to determine if its fuel or spark problem

Disconnect a sparkplug wire or 2 and ground it to the engine atleast 3/16 in away from ground have helper crank engine over-do you have a snapping blue spark? If so-you have a fuel related problem, check the fuel pressure to rule out the fuel filter/fuel pump/pressure regulator and listen to the injector/s are they pulsing or hook up a noid light. No snapping blue spark continue to troubleshoot the ignition system-power input to the coil/coil packs,coil's resistances,cap and rotor /distributor pick-up coil, ignition control module, ECM,Ignitor camshaft and crankshaft sensors- Note: If it doesn't apply disregard it
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
BONDO7777
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
Hi, My wifes suburban will not start. Turns over o.k. but will not fire. I put 5 gallons of gas in it and still wouldn't start. So I suspected the fuel filter. Change it and still wouldn't start. Put a new fuel pump relay in and again wouldn't start. I no that the fuel pump is in the gas tank and will be a pain to change. Am I missing something (control module)? What should I check to verify? Thanks Steve. Also It died while she was driving.
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
RASMATAZ
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 75,992 POSTS
No start condition:

Get a helper disconnect a sparkplug wire or 2 and ground it to the engine -have helper crank engine over-do you have a snapping blue spark? If so-you have a fuel related problem, check the fuel pressure to rule out the fuel filter/fuel pump/pressure regulator and listen to the injector/s are they pulsing or hook up a noid light. No snapping blue spark continue to troubleshoot the ignition system-power input to the coil/coil packs,coil's resistances,distributor pick-up coil, ignition control module, cam and crank sensors and computer Note: If it doesn't apply disregard it
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
TERRY4TARA
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
I'm in Iarq and my wife said the suburban will not start. I was on thew phone while she was trying to start it, but it sounded like it was not getting fuel, but the neighbor came over and helped her by spraying starter filud and it still would not start. Could it be the pick-up coil , or the Ignition rotor.
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
Hi:
If it doesn't start with starting fluid, chances are your original guess is correct, no spark. However, many things could cause it. Most commonly is the the crankshaft position sensor. Was the check engine light on prior to the problem?
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
SUBURBANMAN97
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
I have a 1997 Chevy Suburban 1500 4wheel drive, 5.7 liter. I've been having starting problems. It starts with no problem first thing in the morning. The problem is when I restart throughout the day, the first crank it turns over and sputters out after a few seconds. But on the second crank it starts right up. Why is that? Could it be the fuel pump or misfire?
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
HMAC300
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 48,601 POSTS
this may be one of hte trucks that has a fuel pump harness problem. you are withing the range of years that this happened. you needed to replace the last foot of harness and the connector is different.check your fuel pressure though as it can be a fuel regulator or the pressure may be low. it should be at least 55 psi.
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
[email protected]
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
I have a 1997 Chevy suburban 5.7 vin R, truck cranks but doesn't run and the chime operates normally except when the key is turned to run as it usually chimes for a few seconds during the light check
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
[email protected]
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
*in addition to previous information mentioned, i installed a set of fog lights prior to the problem occuring, the switch is wired to the blower fuse in the engine compartment and some wire harnesses near the large module were disturbed, but wiggle testing with the key on does not produce any chime or affect start up. the injector sounds weak and intermittent. all fuses appear good, chime and no-run problem developed at exact same time
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
JDL
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 16,098 POSTS
Make sure the battery has a full charge and connections are good. Have a helper crank it, while you visually check for spark at the spark plugs. If you think there may be a problem with feed to ignition switch, that is two red wires, hot all the time, protected by maxi fuse 5 and maxi fuse 6 under the hood, fuse box. As far as the basics, make sure you have good spark and good fuel pressure. With multiple issues, I pick one circuit and backtrack.
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
[email protected]
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
i have vast experience but no longer any tools after changing professions, i can have a helper crank to check for spark, but im looking more for any ideas with shared exsperiences or possible known tsb's. with the ignition chime and engine run inop at the same time especially after an aftermarket install im confident the two are related, i just dont even have a multimeter much less a scan tool to check anything with. i tried to find scematics online but noithing free pops up and the first pay site gave me a simple list of color codes for limited systems for $4 (rip-off). while im looking to see if there is a lack or spark and fuel which i suspect with a lack of chime theres a cause for the ecm to not be signaling any ignition, if you could gather whatever knowledge of this combination of failures you may have. thanks
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
[email protected]
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
ok so the truck does get spark, there is no fuel and without diagnostic tools it appears the injector and pump are not being signaled on. so looking at everything working normal except the chime at start/run and the fuel same time.
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
PANCAKE
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
I have a 1997 suburban with vortec v8.Pulled fuel line to motor and recieving plenty of fuel.checked spark and is getting spark.motor turns over but wont start.I droped tank and removed pump and checked it and is working put pump back on and turned key many times to push fuel to motor and than tried to start and still no start.
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
CARUNDELL
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 602 POSTS
[quote:c9cd748d31="pancake"]I have a 1997 suburban with vortec v8.Pulled fuel line to motor and recieving plenty of fuel.checked spark and is getting spark.motor turns over but wont start.I droped tank and removed pump and checked it and is working put pump back on and turned key many times to push fuel to motor and than tried to start and still no start.[/quote:c9cd748d31]

Hey pancake,
Do you have any way to check fuel pressure?

Chris
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
JDL
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 16,098 POSTS
If the chime doesn't have anything to do with ignition switch, then I don't about the chime. Keep your attitude to yourself.

Use a gage and check fuel pressure. I'm not a chime expert. Have a good day.
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
JOSHM
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
https://www.2carpros.com/forum/1997-k1500-starting-issues-vt22309.html?sid=6ea8b9f5d30f429632a26f3d1d345797

Read that post, I had the same problems.
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
FORD MAN
  • MEMBER
  • 115 POSTS
Sounds like a fuel problem. Do you hear the fuel pump come on after you turn the key on ? Check the directions on the cover of the main power supply under the hood, you may have knocked something loose while wiring in those new lights.

Ford Man in Michigan
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
KHLOW2008
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 41,814 POSTS
For testing electrical circuits, the minimum you need would be a test lamp which could be easily obtained from any parts store. Without any diagnostics tools, some diagnostic procedures cannot be performed and you are not going anywhere.

At the ignition switch, test for voltage at the Pink wire with ignition switch turned to ON and while cranking. If voltage is not available, the ignition switch is bad, unless both red wires does not have voltage as well, then JDL has mentioned the fuses to check. When power supply is interrupted, the chime would not work so a faulty ignition switch fits into it.

Forsman is correct about knocking some wires looe so it is not going to be easy except if you feel that it is related to the work you did, you have to back track and recheck connections.

For wiring circuits, I have attached the engine control wiring schematics. Had to break them up as the complete diagram is too small to be ligible. Hope it is helpful.

Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
CHICO1973
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
will not run with out my foot on the gas , and black smoke comes out of exhaust and the smell of gas is very strong as if it flooding out, the truck does not have converters . could this be the maf sensor
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
DOCFIXIT
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 18,828 POSTS
Matbe or fuel pressure to high or leaking injectors. Unplug MAF see if it corrects problem. Have you checked for codes?
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)
Avatar
CHICO1973
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
well it run but rough still got a problem will the o2 sensor make it run rough. still got the gas smell , as soon as i hooked maf sensor back up it died so that is one problem thanks. still got issues
Dec 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (Merged)