fuel pump?

1995 DODGE NEON
120,000 MILES
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TECHMECH57
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When you first turn on the ignition switch or crank the engine over there is no power to the fuel pump. I switched the relay but nothing. If I hook up my scanner and manually turn on fuel pump circuit then I do. Dont have any wiring diagrams to work with. So need those or if someone has had this problem would be thankful for any help. Dennis [email protected]
Dec 6, 2011 at 4:17 AM
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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See attached
Dec 6, 2011 at 4:29 AM
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RASMATAZ
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Sounds like the computer is not grounding the relay or its not powering the relay
Dec 6, 2011 at 4:43 AM
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TECHMECH57
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Thanks for the info, but I cant seem to print the wiring diagram off here. Could you send it to my email. [email protected]. Thanks for the help. Dennis
Dec 7, 2011 at 12:12 AM
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WRENCHTECH
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If you just right click on the diagram and save it to your drive, you can print it from there.

If you can activate the pump from your scan tool, that proves the circuit is fine and the computer has control of it. There may be a problem in the way you are testing because it only powers for 2 seconds or there may be a problem with the ASD relay.
Dec 7, 2011 at 12:25 AM
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TECHMECH57
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Thanks to everyone who has helped so far. Was able to print wiring diagram but was fussy and hard to read. Didnt show much of the fuel pump circuit though. What I have found is it is in the ground. So I need to know where the ground for the fuel pump goes. If I leave everything hooked up like normal and then ground the wire at the fuel pump everything works like it should. Thaks again, Dennis [email protected]
Dec 10, 2011 at 11:12 PM
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WRENCHTECH
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It's G303

Dec 10, 2011 at 11:23 PM
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WRENCHTECH
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I assume you meant the ground for the pump itself, not the relay. The PCM grounds the relay to turn the pump on.
Dec 10, 2011 at 11:25 PM
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DENNIS ELLIOTT
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I only hear it while cranking engine over. If I disconnect fuel filter shouldn't I see it squirting out gas? Thank you.
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:36 AM (Merged)
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CARADIODOC
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The fuel pump gets turned on for one second when you turn on the ignition switch, then again whenever the engine is rotating, (cranking or running). If you can hear it running during cranking, the pump should be okay.

That one second is usually enough time for it to build close to normal fuel pressure of around 45 - 50 psi. Start by checking that pressure. There will either be a test port on the fuel rail on the engine, or you'll need to insert an adapter "tee" in the fuel supply hose where it crosses from the body to the engine.

You can also use a scanner to command the Engine Computer to cycle the fuel pump on and off about once per second. An alternative is to remove the fuel pump relay, (or automatic shutdown, "ASD" relay), then bypass it with a stretched-out paper clip or piece of wire. Use terminals 30 and 87 for this purpose. That way you can see if the pump runs without having to crank the engine or even turn the ignition switch on.

Chrysler fuel filters for gas engines usually last the life of the vehicle, so that will be way at the end of the list of suspects. You should find fuel spraying from the filter when a hose is loosened, due to the residual fuel pressure in the line, but that doesn't tell you if that pressure was high enough for fuel to spray from the injectors. If you get just a little trickle of gas from the filter, the best suspect is the strainer on the end of the fuel pick-up hose in the gas tank is collapsed or plugged. That strainer is available separately for most models, and costs around $12.00. The most common symptom when these become plugged is the engine runs fine at highway speed for as much as 15 miles, then the engine stalls when the highest volume of fuel is being pumped, which is during coasting.

What is the symptom or problem you're trying to solve?
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:36 AM (Merged)
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DENNIS ELLIOTT
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I'm going to try bypassing the relay. Thank you much for your time.
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:36 AM (Merged)
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CARADIODOC
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Let me know what you find, then we'll figure out where to go next.
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:36 AM (Merged)
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DENNIS ELLIOTT
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I replaced fuel pump and filter. Still no fuel. I can hear the pump while cranking but no fuel. I swapped out both relays still nothing.
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:36 AM (Merged)
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DENNIS ELLIOTT
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I also ran a jumper from terminal 30 to 87. I could hear the pump then.
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:36 AM (Merged)
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ERICK_ADDISON
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my fuel pump keeps on poping stoping me from geting gas what do i do
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:36 AM (Merged)
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BLUELIGHTNIN6
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The starter solenoid is usually on the same circuit. A faulty starter is often the problem. The fuel pump itself may be the culprit as well.



Thanks for using 2CarPros.com!
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:36 AM (Merged)
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DENNIS ELLIOTT
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I finally got it. I guess I just had to purge the air out of the lines. Thank you for be the input.
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:36 AM (Merged)
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CARADIODOC
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There's two ways to replace the fuel pump. One is with an entire housing assembly with the fuel level sending unit attached. The other is to take that housing apart and just put in a new pump and motor.

A lot of new pumps come with a new filter sock that has to be clipped onto the bottom of the housing, but if yours did not, that is a good suspect. The common symptom is a little different than what you described, but we still have to consider it. Chrysler's external fuel filters will rarely solve a problem except with diesel engines. They commonly last the life of the vehicle, unless they rust out and start to leak.

There's three things to consider when you can hear the fuel pump running, but you're not getting any fuel. The first is the two hoses are switched. These are different sizes on my old rusty trusty '88 Grand Caravan, yet, by not paying attention, I was able to switch them when reinstalling the gas tank. As if that wasn't bad enough, years later I did that a second time.

The second problem has to do with that strainer clipped to the fuel pump housing. With high mileage, those will become plugged or will collapse and cause stalling, commonly after driving ten to fifteen miles. The glaring clue in this case, with vehicles that have a fuel pressure regulator on the fuel rail on the engine, and a return line to the tank, is the engine will run fine at highway speed, then will stall when the highest volume of fuel is being pumped, which is during coasting. The way you're testing for fuel, you should be seeing at least something being pumped, even if the strainer is plugged.

The third potential problem really threw me for a loop the first time it occurred. The fuel pump strainer sits in a bowl in the center of the tank. That's so the gas doesn't run away from the pick-up tube when you go around a corner. After replacing the fuel pump on my '88 Grand Caravan, when you pour gas into the tank, it drops right into that bowl. All it takes is less than a quart to get it started. That is not the case with my '94 Grand Voyager. The filler tube misses that bowl, so you have to pour in a minimum of five gallons of gas before it gets high enough to spill over into the bowl where it can reach the pick-up strainer. Once the pump starts pumping gas, fuel returning in the return line washes into that bowl and siphons gas from the tank along with it into the bowl to keep it full, so you can run it well below that five-gallon level. You just need the five gallons at first to get the engine started.
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:36 AM (Merged)
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CARADIODOC
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Just saw your second post. I suspect that last thing I described was the issue. Once the pump starts moving fuel, that air will be out of the lines in a couple of seconds, even if they were completely void of fuel.

Let me elaborate on that bowl in the tank. The pump is able to pump one to three gallons of gas per minute; way more than the engine will ever need. The gas in the line has to reach a high enough pressure to push open the spring-loaded pressure regulator, then that gas goes right back into the tank where it keeps the bowl full. That restriction limits the volume a little, but there will still be a good gallon per minute being circulated. Only a very tiny fraction of that gas will be tapped off to go through the injectors into the engine.

Now think of the molecule of gas sitting in the injector, just waiting to pass the valve in the nozzle. There's two forces acting on it. One is the fuel pressure pushing on it and the other is intake manifold vacuum pulling on it. The Engine Computer knows manifold vacuum from the MAP sensor, and it is programmed to know what fuel pressure should be. Based on those two things, it has a starting point for calculating fuel needs. During coasting, especially coasting down from highway speeds, manifold vacuum goes way up. That increases that force acting on the molecule of gas, and that would result in an excessively-rich mixture and very high emissions. To prevent that, there's a vacuum hose connected to the pressure regulator. That vacuum helps pull the regulator's valve open easier, so fuel pressure drops a corresponding amount. Vacuum pulls harder on the molecule of gas, and fuel pressure pushes less. The net difference between the two forces stays the same. If you were to drive with a fuel pressure gauge attached and clipped under the wiper arm so you could watch it, as I have done multiple times, you'd actually see that pressure go up during acceleration, and drop during coasting.

The point of this sad story is during coasting when fuel pressure drops significantly, it is much easier for the gas to push through the regulator and go back to the tank. With less restriction imposed by that valve, volume goes way up. That is when you can't get enough volume through the plugged strainer, and pressure drops even more, to the point the engine won't run.

While chasing this problem on my '88 Grand Caravan the second time, it only acted up on really hot days, and only when dragging a tandem-axle enclosed trailer that's bigger and heavier than the van. I could see the fuel pressure gradually drop from 50 psi to as low as 15 psi, which is when the engine would start to sputter and surge. It ran fine yet as low as 20 psi. That surprised me because GM engines are well-known to not run well and often not even start if fuel pressure is just five pounds too low.

By lifting the accelerator pedal for a fraction of a second, fuel pressure would pop right back up to 50 psi, then it took about 20 seconds to drop to 20 psi. By watching the gauge, I was able to nurse it home 50 miles with that trailer. A second new strainer solved that problem.

This same problem occurred with two older carbureted engines, but since those didn't use a pressure regulator or return line, the symptoms was different. They just acted like they were running out of gas, so they ran better at real low speeds.

Happy to hear you solved it. Please come back to see us again.
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:36 AM (Merged)
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DENNIS ELLIOTT
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Good to know. Thank you much.
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:36 AM (Merged)
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ANDREWSABRESFAN1
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I just installed new Fuel Tank , Fuel Filter and fuel pump
Car was running before I did this and now it seems that the fuel pump will not pump fuel I have checked all my connections and tubing and all seem to be OK.
My question is this this, Can a bad vacuum or no vacuum cause this to not pump gas? Or is ther something else that I may have missed? I can hear the pump running and know it it is a positive acting pump.
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:37 AM (Merged)
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BMRFIXIT
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Bad vacuum and or vacuum should not affect the fuel pressure and cause no fuel and no pressure


If you hear the pump coming on and no fuel pressure
Have to check fuel pump module inside the tank and the hoses that connects it to the outlet
When 1st key on and or when cranking the fuel pump should come on
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:37 AM (Merged)
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WRESTLERJF
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My fuel pump is not working, but i dont belive it is out. I noticed the (fuel pump) fuse under the hood was blown. So i replace it, i drove about 100yard and the fuse blew again. I once again tried to replace it and this time it blew as soon as i turned the car over. I'm guessing the wiring is grounding out somewhere, but i can figure out where.. Any ideas? Also, i was thinking of running a wire from the pump to the battery (or fuse box). Would this work? If so what one is the positive on the fuel pump, theres 4 wires. 2 blacks, a blue, and a black with white stripe.

Any help would be great!

Note* To access the fuel pump is on the bottum of the fuel tank.. no need to drop the tank (wierd i know)
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:37 AM (Merged)
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JDL
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Welcome to the forum, that fuse supplies voltage to the fuel pump relay--asd relay--pcm. The asd relay supplies voltage to the coil primary--injector/s-- 02 heater circuit, maybe one or two more. You might unplug the relays one at a time, see if the fuse still blows. I have heard of the 02 heater circuit shorting out causing a problem. Unplug all the 02 sensors, see if it makes a difference? Any codes? We appreciate the donation.
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:37 AM (Merged)
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WRESTLERJF
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Any idea if running a wire from the fuel pump to the battery will work? Just to be able to drive it back to my house so i can work on it there
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:37 AM (Merged)
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JDL
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Hi, if the problem is on the asd relay circuit, the vehicle won't start even if you run the pump all day. If the pump itself is blowing the fuse, it isn't safe to wire around anything. I'm a member of this site and have been told not help bypass anything. I'll talk to my boss.
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:37 AM (Merged)
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WRESTLERJF
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ok thanks! I was only going to do it to get the car home, but i understand. Thnx for the help!
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:37 AM (Merged)
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MOR_REEN
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where is the fuel pump relay on the 1995 dodge neion
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:37 AM (Merged)
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JDL
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Hey again, if you use a jumper wire from battery voltage to the output terminal for the switch side of pump relay, the pump should run. Be sure to use an inline fuse on the jumper. If the fuse still blows, you know the problem is on the pump circuit.


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/170934_voltage_here_1.jpg

Dec 17, 2020 at 8:37 AM (Merged)
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INTERNETMECHANIC
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It's in the power distribution center, under the hood.


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/512072_neon_power_distribution_center_1.jpg

Dec 17, 2020 at 8:37 AM (Merged)
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2CP-ARCHIVES
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My fuel pump fuse keeps (20a) blowing ? When I put a new fuse in and I first turn my key on,I can hear my fuel pump engage as I continue to crank to it over that's when it blows .
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:37 AM (Merged)
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WRENCHTECH
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Try going to the tank and unplug the connector to the pump and then put a new fuse in and crank the engine as if you are trying to start it, even though it isn't going to start and then see if it blew the fuse. If it didn't, then replace the pump.
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:37 AM (Merged)
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BRIAN3066
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i have a 1995 neon and the little 20amp fuse keeps blowing could it be the fuel pump itself or is it a wireing problem please help thanks brian
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:37 AM (Merged)
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BACKYARDMECHANIC
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If the fuse blows as soon as you replace it with the car off then its the wiring. If the fuse blows when you turn the key on then I would suspect the pump. Try and wiggle the wiring harness for the fuel pump and see if the fuse blows. If it does then the wiring harness is shorted some where. To further check that its the pump see if you can disconnect the harness to the pump at the tank and then turn the key on. If the fuse holds then plug the harness back in and see if the fuse blows. If it does then the pumps bad. Hope this helps. Backyard mechanic :)
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:37 AM (Merged)
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BRIAN3066
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[quote:0c41308ce4="backyardmechanic"]If the fuse blows as soon as you replace it with the car off then its the wiring. If the fuse blows when you turn the key on then I would suspect the pump. Try and wiggle the wiring harness for the fuel pump and see if the fuse blows. If it does then the wiring harness is shorted some where. To further check that its the pump see if you can disconnect the harness to the pump at the tank and then turn the key on. If the fuse holds then plug the harness back in and see if the fuse blows. If it does then the pumps bad. Hope this helps. Backyard mechanic :)[/quote:0c41308ce4]thanks but its not the pump i changed it and ran new wire from the pump harness to just under the dash before the wires went into 2 diff baxes one was a little black conector the other was going to a a bigger silver box i believe could one of those be gone i changed the fuse box under the hood and also the computer there are just to live wires and 2 grounds the grounds go to the trunk and they are good im still looking should i change those 2 conector things thanks brian
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:37 AM (Merged)
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SURELDABROWN
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Electrical problem
1995 Dodge Neon 4 cyl Two Wheel Drive Automatic N/A miles

Hi my dad owns a 95 dodge neon sports car and is currently haveing a problem with it it wont start due to the fuel pump fuse blowing what else runs off or what else is connected to the the fuel pump fuse (20 amp)? we disconnected the fuel pump wireing harness and we checked the relays and its still blowing but what else could be connected to that fuse that might be causing this problem or even if it cant be causing the problem we still want to know what else is connected to that fuse so we can pinpoint the issue better thanks
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:38 AM (Merged)
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DOCFIXIT
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Hi
Powers Automatic Shut Down relay and PCM. Pull ASD see if that is culprit. Take ohm meter place one lead to ground the other to non power side of fuse what does it read?
Let me know
Thanks for donate
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:38 AM (Merged)
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CARADIODOC
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The fuse feeds three circuits. Unplug the fuel pump relay and the Automatic Shutdown (ASD) relay. If the fuse still blows, the Engine Computer or wiring to it is shorted to ground.

Plug the fuel pump relay back in. If the fuse blows, the pump, or more likely, the wiring to it is shorted to ground.

Plug the ASD relay back in. If that causes the fuse to blow, look at the igition coil, injectors, alternator field, and oxygen sensor heaters.

The two relays will not turn on if you plug them in after the ignition switch is turned on. They only turn on for one second after the ignition switch is turned on, then again when the engine is rotating, (cranking or running).

caradiodoc
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:38 AM (Merged)
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SURELDABROWN
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Powers Automatic Shut Down relay and PCM. Pull ASD see if that is culprit. Take ohm meter place one lead to ground the other to non power side of fuse what does it read?
Let me know

Ok i tryed pulling the ASD relay and the fuel pump relay and the fuse still got blown but we decided to disconnect the PCM and the fuse did not blow but is what we are trying to figure out is if its the wireing or the PCM its self and ideas?
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:38 AM (Merged)
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DOCFIXIT
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If it was a short in wiring then fuse would still blow with PCM disconnected. So PCM must have internal short
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:38 AM (Merged)
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SURELDABROWN
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If it was a short in wiring then fuse would still blow with PCM disconnected. So PCM must have internal short

OK well will a bad PCM cause a scanner not to work? cause i tryed to plug it in and it wont even come on i plug it in my truck and it wokrs just fine
Dec 17, 2020 at 8:38 AM (Merged)