Fluctuating idle, hesitation and codes P0507, P2096 and P2110

2006 DODGE CHARGER

169,500 MILES • 5.7L • V8 • 2WD • AUTOMATIC

TMCINTOSH11

MEMBER
176 POSTS
FOLLOW

Hi, I recently had some work done which includes the valve cover gaskets and spark plugs, and since then it's been running better than ever except I've noticed it's not top notch on acceleration like it was. Also it just started idling up and down slightly in park, and I noticed too when I let off the brake from putting it in park it surges slightly. I'm trying to get ahold of the shop that did the plugs but in the meantime I was hoping someone could help me in solving this, maybe something I could fix myself. They said the manufacturer calls for Champion spark plugs for my car and don't know if this is related are not. I've had the car for a year and this has never happened until the plugs were changed recently. there's no misfires or rough driving or idling, it runs as smooth as a brand new car, it's just this little inconvenience. any help is much appreciated!

I have an update, apparently there are codes now, P0507, P2096 and P2110.
Is this all related to the throttle body? I think I remember the shop saying they cleaned the throttle body and they may have taken it off and didn't reinstall it correctly, or they just messed it up somehow, what do you think?

Video (Click to enlarge)

Jan 23, 2021 at 8:23 AM

TMCINTOSH11

MEMBER
176 POSTS

Update: I may have found the issue but I need a professional's opinion. I took two pictures of how the throttle body sits on the intake manifold because on one side I noticed a tiny gap, in the pictures the white line is the throttle body and the red line is the intake manifold, the other side is completely flushed against the intake, this side isn't, and when I put my ear to it I can hear a hissing at idle.

Images (Click to enlarge)

Jan 23, 2021 at 3:17 PM

KASEKENNY

CERTIFIED EXPERT
18,907 POSTS

Sorry for the delay. Two things. First if they cleaned the throttle body they are most likely going to need to do a throttle relearn. The way to do this is use a scan tool and perform what is called the ETC relearn. If you do not do this then your idle could range like it is and set a DTC. Please see the attached info below.

Also, if you can hear hissing then that could be a vacuum leak so we need to test that. Here is a guide that will show you how to do this:

https://youtu.be/4ktw1X4W_-k

Let us know what you find. Thanks

Image (Click to enlarge)

Jan 24, 2021 at 12:06 PM

TMCINTOSH11

MEMBER
176 POSTS

Thanks, I'm not sure if they removed the throttle body itself but I did today and it was filthy on the intake manifold side, I cleaned it the best I could and put a new gasket in it and put it all back together and drove it and there's no change, so I'm pretty much back to square one. since it had a lean code I guess I'll look for leaks, that's always been the hardest part for me.

Jan 24, 2021 at 12:11 PM

TMCINTOSH11

MEMBER
176 POSTS

I'm going to ask them tomorrow if they did and see if they will do the relearn. I thought it would only need that if I changed the throttle body out with another one? Thanks

Jan 24, 2021 at 12:43 PM

KASEKENNY

CERTIFIED EXPERT
18,907 POSTS

Technically you are correct. However, you are not actually supposed to clean these throttle bodies with chemical cleaners as it hurts the coating on the inside of the bore. However when you do, the throttle body actually functions slightly different so the PCM needs to relearn it just like when you replace it. The purpose of doing it when you replace it is not all throttle bodies are exactly the same so the PCM needs to learn the new one.

Lastly the fact that you have lean codes, I expect you will find a leak so I would start with that. The reason is, the PCM will learn the throttle again as it idles so I would suspect you will find a vacuum leak. I understand that they are not easy but use the brake parts cleaner method in this video and it will show up pretty quick.

https://youtu.be/4ktw1X4W_-k

Jan 24, 2021 at 1:09 PM

TMCINTOSH11

MEMBER
176 POSTS

Gotcha, so it'll still need reprogrammed or will it relearn on its own? By it getting cleaned is it possible it may have damaged it? And the codes were cleared and popped back up but this time only 2 came up, the p0507 and p2110, the lean code is gone but the idle and acceleration is still acting funny. thanks!

Jan 24, 2021 at 1:29 PM

KASEKENNY

CERTIFIED EXPERT
18,907 POSTS

Okay. That is positive but we still could have a vacuum leak so we need to rule that out.

However, if this was not happening before the throttle body was cleaned then yes I suspect it was damaged.

I am attaching the testing that we need to run through for these two codes. I would suggest starting with the P2110 because the first two steps have you check the throttle plate. Let's start with this and go from there. Thanks

Images (Click to enlarge)

Jan 25, 2021 at 6:22 PM

TMCINTOSH11

MEMBER
176 POSTS

Thanks for the info, I haven't had much time for test just yet but there is a development, I took it on a 50 mile round trip and half way through while driving around 50/55 MPH the engine started stumbling and the lightning bolt indicator started flashing and I pulled over and put it in part and the idle was acting weird, it was idling high and rough and the lightning bolt indicator stayed on steady, so I turned the engine off, gave it a minute, and it started back up just fine. Drove it down the road just fine, until about 10 minutes later it did it again. Same thing, indicator was flashing, it wouldn't accelerate, I did the same thing, turned it off on the side and again it fired back up just fine. I'm really starting to think replacing the throttle body is what I should do, I just don't know if it has to be reprogrammed with a programming tool or if I can rest/program it myself. what do you think? Thanks!

Mar 5, 2021 at 5:52 PM

TMCINTOSH11

MEMBER
176 POSTS

Oh, and I didn't find any leaks as far as I could tell. I also checked every vacuum hose and everything looks great under the hood. I even keep it clean under there.

Mar 5, 2021 at 5:55 PM

KASEKENNY

CERTIFIED EXPERT
18,907 POSTS

Normally this lightening bolt and no acceleration is a throttle body or sensor. I suspect you have some more or different codes now so if you want to check that would help confirm this.

However, the fact that you had a P0507, I would run through this testing just to make sure this is the issue and then replace the throttle body.

I attached all this info below. Let me know if you have questions. However, you do need to learn the new throttle body with a scan tool or it will set some codes.

Images (Click to enlarge)

Mar 5, 2021 at 7:08 PM

TMCINTOSH11

MEMBER
176 POSTS

Thank you Kenny, I'm going to do what testing I can this weekend. I'm definitely checking the codes again too. Usually I check the codes through the dash (acc to on x3) but I've learned that this isn't the accurate way to check them so I'm going to use a scanner. I've done a little research a while back and it seems there isn't a MAF sensor on the air intake tube it's a air temperature sensor, there's also no IAC sensor or throttle position sensor either, in the older cars replacing the tps fixed issues like this but now it's all built into a single fly by wire type unit. I'm still learning on these type of engines. If it comes to replacing the throttle body what kind of scan tool am I going to need? Thank you for all your help!

Mar 5, 2021 at 7:23 PM

KASEKENNY

CERTIFIED EXPERT
18,907 POSTS

Sounds great. You will just need basic hand tools like wrenches, sockets and things. You will need a scan tool after you install it so that you can learn it to the PCM. Otherwise, it will set a code against it.

Let us know how you make out. Thanks

Mar 6, 2021 at 7:13 PM

TMCINTOSH11

MEMBER
176 POSTS

Thanks kenny, I bought a $500.00 diagnostic tablet, I ran the codes and there was one new one.
The codes for thermostat temperature, wrong oil type I already know about and the dealership is going to run diagnostics to tell me what's causing them on the 15th.
As for the other codes let me know what you think I should do? The car runs and drives good but there's an awful lot of lag and hesitation behind the acceleration of the car. I have a 2002 Dodge Ram 1500 SLT and I barely touch the gas pedal and it zooms! I really want my car to be this way too.
If it helps, there's quite a bit of small vibration when driving, and it comes and goes, so should I go ahead and get the throttle body and give it a shot? It's incredibly easy to replace and I'm only going to get OEM from the dealership and I now have the relearn tool. Let me know what you think. thanks for all your help!

Image (Click to enlarge)

Mar 7, 2021 at 8:04 AM

KASEKENNY

CERTIFIED EXPERT
18,907 POSTS

Yeah. More then likely if it were me I would replace the throttle body and go from there. this would cause it to lag and these codes so again, if it were me, I would do it.

Mar 7, 2021 at 7:04 PM

TMCINTOSH11

MEMBER
176 POSTS

Thanks Kenny, I had a really strong feeling it was. so I'm going to Dodge tomorrow and hopefully if they have it in stock pick one up, if they don't then I won't have it until Tuesday. but as soon as I install and relearn it I'll clear the codes and see how it does, and I will let you know! Thanks!

Mar 7, 2021 at 7:08 PM

TMCINTOSH11

MEMBER
176 POSTS

Okay Kenny, I got the throttle body today, I went with the highest grade from advance auto parts (TechSmart brand I think) and it came with a one year warranty, the dealership can't get the part for a few days they said so I just went with this.
Removal and installation was really easy, I made sure to have the battery unplugged.
After I got everything together and connected I went to do the relearn process with my diagnostic tool, unfortunately I found out that it doesn't support relearn for my year make and model. So I did the only thing I could, started it up and drove it after clearing the codes. It's driving a little better and definitely idling better, the hesitation is still there some, but nonetheless it's doing great. Hopefully the incident with the malfunction doesn't occur again, and I drove it until the check engine light came back on and the only code that came up was p2096, so I may be dealing with a vacuum leak. Oh and I replaced the O-ring gasket for the throttle body as well.

Images (Click to enlarge)

Mar 8, 2021 at 12:07 PM

KASEKENNY

CERTIFIED EXPERT
18,907 POSTS

Sounds great. Yeah that sounds like it was definitely an issue if this is the only code you have and the vehicle is driving better.

You are probably correct but it may also be worthwhile you make sure to get the learn procedure done by a shop that has a tool that can do it because it will set codes if it is not learned.

However, below is the testing for this code for us to run through.

Images (Click to enlarge)

Mar 8, 2021 at 6:46 PM

TMCINTOSH11

MEMBER
176 POSTS

Thanks Kenny,

It looks like after almost a week 2/3 symptoms are gone, the acceleration is still suffering to a degree. There's still hesitation, and up speed is hesitating (like it's struggling to speed up) which it did this with the old throttle body and after a while it went away, I'm hoping it does this with the new throttle body, I'm still in a learning experience with this car, my experiences are a little more old school.
I'm getting the knock sensor diagnosed at the dealership Monday, I'm not sure if it needs replaced or if it's detecting a knock.
The 02 sensors I'm already aware of, one if the bong ports is poorly brazed and needs a new one rewelded and it's on my to-do list.
I also haven't experienced the issue I did 2 Fridays ago, yet again I haven't traveled that far anywhere since I replaced the throttle body.
The lean code I will try a couple more things and if inconclusive I'll have a shop take a look, when it comes to diagnosing a lean code or vacuum leak I'm not very good in that area.

Mar 13, 2021 at 5:18 PM

KASEKENNY

CERTIFIED EXPERT
18,907 POSTS

Thanks for the update. I will be curious to hear what they turn up. Please let us know. Thanks

Mar 13, 2021 at 5:46 PM

TMCINTOSH11

MEMBER
176 POSTS

Hi Kenny,

Well, I've had in the shop now for a week, both knock sensors are being replaced, the downstream 02 sensor and catalytic converter (driver side) is also being replaced, about a $1,400.00+ bill, the work should begin tomorrow or Tuesday, the reason the catalytic converter is being replaced is because the previous owner put a different one on it, not sure why maybe because the old one was stolen, they also welded a second bong port on top of the first one were the 02 sensor goes in which is why the lean code is there I imagine, but hopefully it will run better, the head mechanic said when he test drove it that it was running poorly, I wonder if the downstream system lean code may have caused the knock sensor code, if it's reading lean even if it's actually not running lean won't it dump more fuel into the cylinders and cause pre-ignition detonation and cause a knock?
Let me know your thoughts and as soon as I get it back I'll let you know how it goes. thanks!

Mar 28, 2021 at 7:59 PM

KASEKENNY

CERTIFIED EXPERT
18,907 POSTS

If the o2 sensors are reading lean then yes it would continue to add fuel to try and correct this. Then if the knock sensors are faulty then it would not readjust when it starts knocking or detonating. Seems like a perfect storm but makes sense.

Mar 29, 2021 at 7:20 PM