Turn signals and emergency flasher not working and will not start

Hi,

Does the left front signal turn on or do anything? I'm asking because the power supply to the left rear signal is provided by the body control module. So, to start I need you to check for power to the yellow wire on the left rear signal bulb.

I attached two pics. The first is the body control module showing how power is distributed. The second is at the light itself (rear) showing the yellow wire I'm referring to.

Do this and let me know what you find.

Joe

Joe, after i wrote the earlier question i went and rechecked the turn signals and found that out of the four blinkers only the front left one is working. The blinker indicator on the dash the left one flashes just once when lever is pushed down and when lever is pushed down for the right side the indicator light flashes normal even though the outside lights don't work.

Hi,

If you are sure the bulbs are good, chances are it is either the switch or the logic module in the body control module. Ugh!!! I miss the old days. LOL

Listen, here is what I suggest to save us from replacing parts that are good. What really needs done is to have the computer scanned for what are called (B) codes. That will scan the body control module and see if it is the switch or the module itself. I hate to ask you to do that, but like I mentioned, I don't want to replace good parts.

If you could have that done, let me know what codes are found.

Let me know.
Joe

Does it take a special computer or can a place like AutoZone do or will a code reader work?

Hi,

Chances are AutoZone won't have a scan tool that can read body control module codes. You could ask or at least let them try.

Let me know if you have other questions.

Joe

Another question for you. about every two days I will go out to start the car and it will just click. i can hook up jumpers to it and it fires right up, and will so for two days and then it does it again. This the second time in a row that it had done this.. i don't know much about the car since i just bought it. as far as i know there is no light on anywhere and i start it every day... it only clicks once when i turn the key.. doesn't even make a noise as if it was trying to turn over and it doesn't make the several clicking noises om use to when the battery is dead.. any ideals?

Hi,

Okay, the most common cause of what you described is a loose or corroded battery terminal and is really easy to fix. Take a look through this link:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/everything-goes-dead-when-engine-is-cranked

If that isn't helpful, then do this. Keeping in mind the battery or the alternator can be failing, we need to check one thing at a time. What I want you to do is when the car is running, take it to a parts store and ask them to load test the battery. That way we will know if the battery is just weak. In most cases, they will do it free of charge hoping to sell you a battery.

If you can't take it, here is a link that explains how to load test one at home:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-battery-load-test

Next, if the battery passes, either have them test the alternator at the same time or you can do it yourself. All you need is a multi meter or volt meter. Here is a link that shows how it's done:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-a-car-alternator

When you check the alternator output, with the engine off, battery voltage should be around 12v. With the engine running, it should be near 14v on the meter.

If everything checks good, we will need to check for a voltage draw, but I'm not going to overwhelm you with that at this point.

Do this and let me know what you find. If possible, let me know the voltages you find if you do it yourself.

I will watch for your reply.

Take care,
Joe

Okay, i will see about getting both tested but just to make that its not the starter getting stuck or going out.. remember when a battery would fail you would get a bunch of clicks or starter would drag when the key is turned.. there is only one click when the key is turned.

Hi,

If the battery is good and you get one click, it is either the starter itself or a weak connection. Keep in mind, the starter places the heaviest load on the electrical system in the car. If there is a weak, loose, or corroded connection, usually you will get one click and then connection is temporarily lost. Since it starts right up when you jump start it, the first thing I would check are the terminals on the battery. Make sure there is nothing loose or corroded. I say that because when you attach jumper cables, the clamp on the cable can be allowing the terminal to tighten on the battery post and make the connection.

Please feel free to let me know if you have other questions. Also, I don't feel the starter is bad simply because it works properly when jump started. Even though there are two batteries, they still only supply 12v.

Let me know if I can help.

Joe

Joe, just wanted you to know i will do what you recommend, it may take me a few days or longer because i'm waiting on paperwork from DMV so the car will be legal to drive.. so don't forget about me and visa versa. Bring back the old days!!!

Okay, i tried to jump the car and it didn't even budge from just the single click. so i took it down to AutoZone and the put it on a tester out of the car of course and he said it is at 0 percent.. i have to wait until tomorrow to see if it holds a charge.

Sounds good. Let me know what is found.

Joe

I will keep you posted on this whole thing step by step.. your knowledge has given me hope in not just to junk this car.. i miss the old days of cars that were simple to work on and when i was able to work on them disabled.

Don't worry. We'll get it running. And like you, I miss the old cars. LOL They were much easier to work with.

Take care,
Joe

Hello again. okay, i have replaced the battery and so far so good. I am going to let it sit for a day or two to see if it goes dead. i replaced the whole turn signal switch and that still didn't fix the blinker problem.. i investigated the emergency flasher problem and it's unplugged.. i plugged it back in and only the right side the inside indicators work, but only the left rear outside light flashed.. same when i turn on the blinkers, only the left rear flashes and only the right side inside indicator flashes.. the left inside indicator will flash one time.. where is the flasher(s) located? also Monday i'm going to try and see about getting the b codes read.

The turn signal flasher function is performed by the Body Control Module (BCM). That is why I'm thinking that is where the problem is. If you take a look at the attached picture, that is a portion of the body control module schematic for the signals/hazard.

Let me know what you find.

Joe

Will the new BCM need to be programmed to the car when i replace it?

This is the is the diagram if the fuse block and it shows a BCM relay slot on number 47 but is missing in my fuse block. could this be the problem?

The IP stands for instrument panel. Chances are it isn't the cause. Plus, I assume it wasn't removed when this happened, correct?

Joe

If it was removed i don't have any clue i just know that that slot is empty. where is the BCM located for my car and will it have to be programmed.

I just did a parasitic battery drain test with a multi-meter and got a reading of 0.02 amps and it would fluctuate up to 0.08 amps. Is this good or bad?

Hi,

I don't like to see them go over 25 milliamps which is (.025 amps). I am basing that on the model year. You indicated it goes up to .08 amps. How often and how long does it stay there?

When i hook up the multi-meter it continuously for maybe 10 seconds and then it settles down to 0.02. now keep in mind i am using a cheap Harbor Freight multi-meter.. my settings is set on DCA and on the number 20 in the range setting and the red lead is plugged into the 10amp hole.

Here is a pic of the multi-meter i'm using: the white circle is where the dial is set and the green circle is where the red lead is.

That looks correct. If it only says high for about 10 seconds and then drops to .02 amps and stays there, that isn't an issue. There are different things that draw power for a very short time before they go "to sleep mode".

I finally got around to testing the yellow wire at the socket end and there is no power. there is six wires going to that socket and some do test good but the yellow one has no power. i have an appointment to have the b codes done on the 11th. If he can read them.. he told me some Saturn's he can read others he can't.

I hope it's an easy fix. If you have the chance, let me know what is found. I'm interested in knowing.

Take care of yourself.

Joe

Okay, just to give you an update: i went to a place that was recommended and you were 100 percent correct.. the problem is with the BCM. the mechanic checked the circuits that lead to the blinkers and to the indicators and they all tested good and said all problems lead to the BCM.. i have already ordered a used one that is guaranteed.. can't afford a new one. i should have it by the 19th.. I will let you know if it cures my problem.

Hi,

I had a feeling that was the issue. I was hoping I was wrong just because they aren't cheap. However, everything was pointing to that as the issue.

I hope it takes care of the problem for you. Let me know if you need help in any way.

Take care,

Joe

I will do that.

Hello its been awhile. okay, the first time i ordered a BCM they sent me the fuse block that is under the hood. so i had to order another one from a different place.. i got the right item this time but when i put it in the car will not start or even turn over... the blinkers work. now the indicator on the dash shows a car with a lock on it and it continuously flashes so that tells me that the anti theft kicks in... is there a way to by pass this feature? i have been told that the BCM doesn't have to be programmed to my car. is that true?

Hi,

No, that isn't true and that is why you are having trouble. It needs to be programmed with the proper RPO configurations. RPO (regular production options). Otherwise, there may be components or options in the vehicle that don't work properly.

As far as the anti theft, there are two ways to do it. One way is with a scan tool and takes 10 minutes and another is without the scan tool. It will take 30 minutes to complete the theft deterrent reprogramming. Here are the directions.

_________________________________________________________


30 Minute Learn Procedure
1. Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
2. Attempt to start the engine, then release the key to ON. The vehicle will not start.
3. Observe the SECURITY telltale, after approximately 10 minutes the telltale will turn OFF.
4. Turn OFF the ignition, and wait 5 seconds.
5. Repeat steps 1 through 4 two more times for a total of 3 cycles/30 minutes. The vehicle is now ready to relearn the Passlock(TM) Sensor Data Code and/or passwords on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK.
6. Start the engine. The vehicle has now learned the Passlock(TM) Sensor Data Code and/or password.

__________________________________________________________

Let me know if that helps and gets you going.

Take care,
Joe

Okay, that didn't work.. when i tried to do it a second time the car and lock would start flashing for a few flashes then go solid and stay that way... it wont start the reprogram over now.. also when all this happened i would turn the ignition and the battery and oil indicator will show which is normal but it would flash once and go back solid... so for now i put the old one back in.

Are you able to have it reprogrammed near where you are located? For some reason, it may require the scan tool to do it. However, the 30 minute relearn usually does the job.

Joe