Sept po300, April 2022, p1404, April 26 po302 and c121c

2010 DODGE CARAVAN
188,427 MILES • 3.8L • V6 • AUTOMATIC
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WAYVAN@
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I was driving at 50mpg then car will not go over 10mpg then stalls and engine light then it flashing and stop put on the throttle light,car print of skids light is on,pull over and now throttle is flashing,I at drove at 188422 it when to 20mpg to 40 put it stalls,make back will run 10mpg and turn heater,also mechanic broken 1or 2 bolts on water pump and done but diff mechanic in real shop for week said could not remove,so it was glued put on a water pump,as it stop on Hood on driving side it hot but you stand in it cool like I wasn't driving it .
May 24, 2022 at 12:43 PM
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AL514
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Hello, your question is a little bit difficult to understand, but I will explain the codes you have. The P0300 is random cylinder misfire, and the P0302 is cylinder #2 misfire detected codes.
The P1404 code can cause cylinder misfires, it is EGR valve Position Sensor Rationality Closed. The EGR valve is used for emissions purposes to keep in-cylinder temperatures down. The EGR valve has a position sensor on it so the engine computer (ECM) can know if the valve is open or not. So, the wiring to the EGR valve and voltage readings need to be checked. The valve has five wires to it. Three wires are for the EGR position sensor and the other two are to control the valve itself.
If the valve is stuck open, you will have stalling at idle but should smooth out when at higher rpm because that's when the valve is supposed to be open.

The water pump absolutely should not have been glued on. The bolts should have been drilled out and then the bolt holes should have been re-tapped with new threads for new bolts. That will cause you problems. Glue will not hold the water pump on.

The (C121C- Torque Request Signal Denied) is the reason why the Traction Control light is on, and the Throttle light is flashing. One light may be on and then the other may come on. This is because the engine computer cannot determine why it cannot gain control over Yaw/Traction control system. This is a manufacture specific code. There are a number of reasons why this may be happening. Due to the other code P0302, this code may be part of the issue. Misfiring cylinders and other codes that have to do with engine control such as the P1404, P0300, P0302 all have to do with engine control. These other issues need to be repaired correctly first. If the engine computer cannot gain full system control due to multiple faults like this, a code like C121C can set. Basically, it's the engine computer telling you it has reached a limit where there are too many faults occurring at once and it cannot control the engine in the proper way, and it will deny other systems to function correctly.

The cylinder misfires can be caused by that EGR valve not being fully closed, bad sparks and regular tune up parts. Each cylinder should be checked for performance, the EGR valve needs to be diagnosed, and the water pump needs to be fixed correctly. The C121C code may shut off by itself if these other systems are corrected.
I would also have the throttle body cleaned. The last guide below has to due with cleaning the throttle bore for carbon deposits.
The vehicle is probably going into Limp Mode, which is a failsafe mode and that may be why you can't get above a certain speed.
I'm not sure why the mechanic didn't address all these issues. I would take the vehicle to a shop you trust and can do the work correctly.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/engine-misfires-or-runs-rough

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-emission-control-systems-work

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-a-car-computer-works-pcm-ecm-bcm

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/throttle-actuator-service
May 24, 2022 at 2:57 PM
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WAYVAN@
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I have to be honest, I didn't tell the mechanic all AutoZone but he when I leave van ,he would know what but didn't not give the answer 2CarPros without seeing vehicle but I have one question got the PCM engine computer plug and play, crankshaft position sensor, fuel injector, EGR valve and if I talk to pro mechanic as person, what should I get done first like engine or dealer ship, have going looking at paperwork this was invoice, include, and I must say I haven't never respectable responsible mechanic that told me all through all the facts the truth about my vehicle. Thank you with call Ernest respect.
May 25, 2022 at 11:25 AM
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WAYVAN@
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Is this the same problem or valve train is something else, and I am new to this area and don't know where to take be mobile mechanic, shop mechanic, tire auto service Inc. can you give first idea, ideas best possible first place to go.
May 25, 2022 at 11:55 AM
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AL514
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Okay, I'm having a little bit of trouble with what you're saying, but that's okay. So, it sounds like you took it to AutoZone first? I know they can tell you what the codes are in the computer. And are you saying that you have purchased those components already, the PCM, crankshaft position sensor, EGR valve, and fuel injectors? All I can see on the picture is " Computer Diag, Has Valvetrain problem, and something about carbon build up. If you could get a better picture of that so I can see the whole thing. Sometimes picture from customers don't come out to well over the internet, but your question about the "valve train" is. The valve train is the upper parts on top of the cylinder head under the valve cover. So, this will include the camshaft, the intake and exhaust valves, valve springs, and rocker arms which open the valves. And I think what he was saying on there is a build up of carbon deposits on these components will affect the performance. Carbon build up on the intake and exhaust valves for example can cause them to not open fully and/or hang open when they should be closed. You may hear a lot of ticking type of noises with valve issues.
Also, a lot of carbon build up under the valve cover (same area) can restrict the flow of oil to those components preventing them from being properly lubricated causing extreme heat build up and other problems.
As for where to take the vehicle, for one the people at AutoZone are not mechanics. They can only tell you what codes you have, and usually they will just sell you the part there is a code for. This is not the correct way to diagnose an issue. A code only tells you what the engine computer is detecting as a potential fault.
The dealership is going to be the most expensive option. And you are correct, it is difficult to find an honest shop. I don't think you need to replace the PCM, I think these other issues just need to be addressed first.
The carbon build issue is probably what is causing the most of the problems. It will cause cylinder misfires, EGR valve issues, etc. If you can get a better picture of that invoice up there that would help.
Also remember that if the cost of fixing the van is more than it's worth in value. Then you might think about finding something newer/used.
So, try to post a better invoice picture and we'll go from there. You can go to a couple of different shops and show them the invoice as well and get different quotes. You will notice a difference for sure doing it that way.
May 25, 2022 at 1:35 PM
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Yes you are right, I not think brought all parts and it put on van ,before water pump issues van made a lot issues when to because they car just got engine light and stall at this auto shop for diagnostic this was the invoice, true I should look at the problem and trying to find used vehicle, but even if credit good on disability / no job have to pay in cash and I really needed the van, and I don't that good picture with send again and will trust and do believe you.
May 25, 2022 at 1:59 PM
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I didn't receive information that you provided or what I thought was but some kind of form. what is needed by phone with the mechanic, or understand it.
May 25, 2022 at 2:03 PM
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AL514
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What information did you not receive?
Okay, on the second invoice it looks like all they did was hook up a scan tool and read the codes. Only says "Code P0301 cylinder #1 misfire" and has Valve Train Problems, Possible carbon build up.
Thats not a diagnosis, that's a guess at best. And then a $75.00 diagnostic fee.
Both of these are awhile back too. It doesn't look like they did any testing at all.
So, you took it to AutoZone next and then that's when the P0302 and C121C showed up?
May 25, 2022 at 2:33 PM
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WAYVAN@
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On Sept 2021 it replace spark plug wires plugs and replace on Sept 2021 po300 replace crankshaft position sensor ckp, also random/multiple cylinder misfire, but engine light is on after spark plugs and wires, replace sensor sept29 ,2021,oct 5,2021 it spark plugs and wires again, April 12,2022 engine light is off P1404 add heater 2 circuit I had done EGR valve but also secondary PO403/Po404 April 19PO403,2022 then had EGR valve gasket put on.
May 25, 2022 at 4:07 PM
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WAYVAN@
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They antifreeze hose blow on both y rubber hoses,and water pump leaking, mobile mechanic broke bolt, radiator was leaking at top,side hose near radiator silver cap repair new radiator,small hose have try to make it work that's only why to tell you.
May 25, 2022 at 4:13 PM
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AL514
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What do you mean Heater 2 circuit and "also secondary"? Are you meaning the Oxygen sensor?
The P0403 is an EGR "circuit" code, which means there is a wiring issue to the EGR valve. Since you already replaced the valve and gasket, there must be a wiring issue. But I don't think a non-functioning EGR valve will cause the issues you are having. The P1404 is an EGR valve closed code.
With all these issues and you have already replaced the spark plug and wires twice, the crankshaft position sensor and the EGR valve and you're still having stalling/running problems then there is something else going on here.
There might be a problem in the wiring harness and that's why you're getting so many different codes like this.
May 25, 2022 at 7:19 PM
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April 12,2022,187403 fix finder report auto zone p1404 I don't know but send image , secondary DTCs po403 EGR "A" control circuit,po404 EGR position sensor performance.
May 26, 2022 at 8:18 AM
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AL514
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Any code that has "Circuit" in it is usually a wiring issue or the engine computer detecting some sort of voltage issue. So, if there is a wiring issue to the EGR valve and the valve is not being activated, that's what is causing the 2nd code P0404. Below is a picture of the EGR valve and where it is. The wiring to the valve will need to be checked, since it's a new valve, the tubing to the EGR valve may be clogged up with carbon build up, or it has a wiring issue, and it is not able to be commanded on.
Below is a video of a 2005 Dodge Caravan but it has the same EGR valve that yours does. He is showing how to test these valves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty29y3R8fZI
May 26, 2022 at 12:50 PM
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WAYVAN@
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Hey, I replace that it black stuff on it, this is old one.
May 26, 2022 at 1:47 PM
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WAYVAN@
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l not good at making good photos.
May 26, 2022 at 1:50 PM
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WAYVAN@
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So what do think is next too check?
May 26, 2022 at 1:51 PM
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WAYVAN@
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I looked at video but that vehicle was near the oil but on my vehicle it's near battery on driver's side is it possible that there more one.
May 26, 2022 at 2:10 PM
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AL514
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It's in a different spot in the video but it is the same type of valve. The valve needs to be checked for certain voltages. Do you have a multimeter to check the voltage readings at the harness plug for the EGR valve?

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-voltmeter
May 26, 2022 at 4:09 PM
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WAYVAN@
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That is the old PCM engine computer, crankshaft position sensor Sept 29, 2021, and I am looking for a water pump mechanic to remove, replace yet I am still looking. Thank you!
May 26, 2022 at 4:13 PM
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No, I don't have a multimeter, but maybe can ordered for AutoZone or O'Reilly's I am near both places.
May 26, 2022 at 8:12 PM
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AL514
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It's not a part, it's a tool for reading different voltages. But if you have no experience in electrical work on vehicles it's going to be very difficult for you. Do you want me to just explain what you should say to a shop if you stop at one? Since you have the invoices from the other shops. You don't need to look for a specific water pump mechanic. You just need to find a decent shop. Just explain what happened with the water pump and that you need them to diagnose the EGR Valve for the P1404 code and that's all you want done. Tell them the EGR valve is setting that code as well as the P0403 and P0404, because they are all related.
May 27, 2022 at 1:52 PM
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I had it towed to Aamco transmission and total car care, today 5/31/22. they review the have special computer and he said I can check on the water pump, diagnostic codes with his specialized employee, now I wait.
May 31, 2022 at 7:08 PM
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AL514
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Okay, I hope it goes ok for you. I know it's difficult when vehicles break down. Unfortunately, they all do at some point.
Jun 1, 2022 at 12:13 PM
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I have estimate for water pump and remove and 1backfire. $1,300.00 and change only good thing it be made in pays too financial.
Jun 3, 2022 at 1:47 PM
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AL514
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It's unfortunate that the other shop broke a bolt off in the engine block. That can end up being a lot of work. So hopefully after this, everything will be taken care of.
Jun 3, 2022 at 1:55 PM
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WAYVAN@
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Also thank you for excellent advice.
Jun 3, 2022 at 2:32 PM
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WAYVAN@
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Hey, the man said he removed water pump and drove it, riding rough, need this by June 7,22. he said he couldn't remove because too far in but to get used timing cover at $700.00 added. but will need to order it, he didn't charge anything yet. also, water pump was leaking, the tow truck driver pull my out park stop it was not leaking, I really needed a honest shop there have now five shops, will get that meter, yet my van is still, trying to put back, and I didn't ask to remove yet but wanted diagnostic done and check bbb, review. I question they some else I can do.
P.O. I know there was a problem, can't drive it 20mpg.
Jun 7, 2022 at 2:50 PM
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AL514
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Okay, I can see the water pump bolts onto the Timing Chain Cover. The water pump is probably leaking because of the missing bolt. I'm not sure why he can't drill out the broken bolt and re-tap the whole with new threads and get a little bigger bolt to put in there. That's what I would do. $700.00 is a lot for a timing cover, all due to one broken bolt? That's going to be $2,000.00 for a water pump. What were they going to do for the $1,300.00?
Jun 7, 2022 at 7:01 PM
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WAYVAN@
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AAmco diagnostic is corrode wires on the wire harness near training, if add wiring diagram it's C122 it's a lot backorder a week, maybe 2-3 days to complete, as for the water pump, he put back on not leaking yet there still one bolt there.
Jun 10, 2022 at 1:36 PM
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So, I checked connected onboard computer, found faults, ignition circuit, EGR circuit and coolant temperature sensor, connect C102 severe corrosion and thermal damage. replacing harness then retest. My question is, should I stay with or go to the Dodge dealership? because this sounds serious their price $2,904.80 labor $675.00 have two weeks for ordering, the dealership have to make appointment I week out. Thank you!
Jun 10, 2022 at 2:06 PM
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AL514
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C102 is a 10-pin connector and what they call thermal damage is a melted connector. It looks like they intend on replacing the entire engine wiring harness because they probably can't find the high resistance area that caused the connector to melt. The dealership is not going to give you a payment plan like you mentioned earlier. The price will be the same or higher because labor at dealerships is usually higher. Most likely a bad Ground or Power feed is causing the heat that melted the connector.
The Totally Integrated Power Module which is usually on the driver side in the engine compartment powers almost everything in this vehicle. It would help if you checked the back of all the Fuse panels in the vehicle for any water intrusion. Including the Fuse panels inside the vehicle as well.

One thing you can tell the mechanic to do, is if there was a melted connector, they should use a thermal camera to look for hot spots in the vehicle. It is a very effective way to find other bad connectors/ connections that would cause an ECM connector to melt. It is a new way of diagnosing issues like this. It will speed up the whole process.
Jun 10, 2022 at 2:10 PM
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Okay, I have to another payment plan credit is $800 for 90 days, yes true they don't, yet my electronic control is crazy, the panel were push to open side door will not open, light flashes or turn off, new battery key fob will not open until very close then other open far away, manager engine online is sometime $800.00. okay more. What about PCM control module for engine control and transmission, is the near driving tire PCM engine computer ECM, ECU programmed plug and play is not the ECM electronic control is that near air filter, also will call them tomorrow.

Jun 10, 2022 at 4:49 PM
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AL514
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The component near the driver side tire I think you're meaning, that is the Totally Integrated Power Module, Its basically the Body Control Module, but it powers up everything. And they have a lot of problems and always have. They are on a Network with the Engine Control Module.

Just to give you an idea of the Computer network in your vehicle. Pages 1 and 2 is the Totally Integrated Power Module (TIPM) and the Engine (Powertrain Control Module). Every Blue box on pages 1 to 4 is an Electronic Control Module in the Vehicle. Page 5 shows you more in depth what the TIPM does. If you notice on the top right is the Powertrain Control Module. Those 2 (in yellow) wires are the Network wires that run into the TIPM. From there all the other modules in the vehicle are connected to it. So, if there is a problem with the TIPM, all the data has to go through it to get to the Powertrain Control Module (ECM). It's very complex.

The ECM is near the TIPM, they are both on the driver side engine compartment,
So, if they are looking for a heat issue, using a thermal camera is a great method of finding hot spots that they wouldn't normally be able to see. Since there are so many different modules and things that can go wrong, that's probably why they just want to replace the wiring harness. They probably think it will be faster than trying to find the actual problem. It could be a loose connector anywhere causing heat issues.
But when they say a thermal event, that is caused by high resistance causing a heat buildup and that's how connectors melt.

This is why it's so difficult sometimes to find problems in newer vehicles. They are built too complex.
Jun 10, 2022 at 5:34 PM