Push Button Start Mod for jeeps

Great!

Thanks for the recognition!

My reasons for my mod were:

1) All CJ key switches (GM type) eventually the key falls out, being this was going be replace it #3 time, I figured it was time/ can fire it up with no key at all/ stranded when you drive somewhere without the key and accidentally turn it back to "lock"/ the theft possibility

2) The reach around and turn thing is just uncomfortable.

3) I hate keeping up with keys!

The other posts you saw, were my diagrams and pics of the task there, or was it just general discussing of what I had installed.

Mine's a 1977 w/ 258

Basically, I have two off/on safety covered toggles (one is all accessories, the other is ignition) and a two way momentary (flipping up or down will start the cranking). There is a hidden switch to kill it all!

I may go back and split off accessories like my cigarette lighter onto yet another safety toggle (presently there are two wires for accessories that I have hooked to the one toggle), this would let it stay hot when everything else is not. I would probably not use a lighted toggle. I just have to sit down and see what all is on the circuit.

Can you solder well?

I have most of the modification in pictures and diagrams, I do not mind sharing.

Picture one) How it looks on my dash, I may add a third safety toggle later.

Picture two ) Completed unit, modified ignition switch in my lower hand. My buddy could not believe I finished it and plugged it right in with no problems or no need to troubleshoot any mis-wiring.

Picture three) See! the original harness clips right in to the modified ignition switch and it can be totally removed and put back to the old way in a jiffy, if need be! (if you get another OEM ignition switch)

Picture four) "Mr. Jeep"

Picture five) A glimpse of my Man cave/ Guest room

This sort of what you are after?

Send a picture of your Jeep!

The Medic

Wife just told me I made this sound like that was all I was going give you.

No no no no!

I have a bunch more for you - step by step!

Keep responding, especially that you are understanding how this whole deal works, it is more than just a push button.

Need to know if your rig must go through annual inspections?

Is this a daily driver?

The Medic

Yes sir! That is exactly how I would like to complete this mod. Very clean and reversible if need be. I live in rural Alabama so the need for vehicle inspections does not exist, which is fine with me!

This Jeep is not a daily driver, but I do get it out two or three days a week for exercise. I like the idea of not having to keep up with keys and am tired of wrestling with the ignition trying to get it to fire up.

As I mentioned before, I am capable of completing most anything mechanical as long as I have detailed instructions and pictures. I have had jeep for a couple years and am still learning my way around it.

Attached are a couple pictures.

Thanks

Here are a couple more pictures to show you what I am dealing with. I guess these wires are going up to the ignition switch on top of the column.

I believe the previous pictures are of the turn signal switch assembly. Apologize for the multiple replies.

So, you want it "my way" or do you want me to revamp it to include the 3rd toggle?

Correct- That is turn signal and horn harness

My pic shows the ign switch

Respond all you want! We love it!

I'm gonna give you a little at a time, this will let you ask questions or me elaborate (I hope you can understand my way of explaining stuff!)

This also gives me task/ goal to work on every evening for a CJ!

CJs are my thing and they are so good, few come on here to be fixed!

In the end, you can return to the beginning of this post to start the project!

It is very difficult to text stuff and not actually have hands on show it to ya!

Bear with me!

The Medic

1) I removed the turn signal connection, you can see the 2 connectors for the ign switch above it

2) Drivers side door to access switch

3) Free at last!

I really like the way you did it as is. The ability to put back as stock fairly easy is pretty slick.The third toggle to me isn't very important.

I located the ignition switch no problem this afternoon. I didn't mention in my previous post, but I can solder.

Kinda going a little backwards for a minute

There is a "L" shaped rod that connects the key switch to the ignition switch.

Once the ign switch comes out, the rod is "Free"

But

More importantly

The Key switch can go in any position (if the lock cylinder is good, it will require the key) (if like mine had gotten, it would freely turn w/ no key)

So

Very Important!

I turned my empty (key-less) switch to "start", maybe even beyond "start"

I took some kinda stamped bi-fold door tool or bracket with hole big enough to go over the rod (anything similar will work)

I hooked the "L" on the rod and Large Hose Clamped the tool (it too was "L" shaped) to the lower steering column.

The bracket is merely an extension that got me to a clear spot on the column, away from the turn signal bracket

Thus stopping my key switch from moving at all (even if forced)

All the way past "start" keeps the mechanism as far away from the "Lock Position" as possible

I do not want the mechanism flopping about and Locking Up my steering at 55 MPH!

If your key still works correctly, it may have to stay in and turned to "start" (lock would be the only position to remove the key.) The key would do nothing.

'Course, if you left the rod loose (unlike mine) You could still lock the steering.

Really thinking about that though-NOT A GOOD IDEA!

You might start up and go with the push button, and be UNABLE to STEER because you FORGOT to unlock the steering with the key!

So


Lets keep it my way, steering will not lock at all, Key switch is unable to move at all. Driving is Safe!


Below is a pic of how I got the rod as low as possible and locked it off with the hose clamp. The "L" shaped rod is barely visible at the wires

See, I really try to think things out and make them child/ idiot proof!

Understand ??? Really 100%???

The Medic

10-4. Understand this no problem. Actually got my full technical service manual out last night and was reviewing how all this was connected (By the way, I have a full 784 pg pdf version from 1977 if you are interested)

I was actually considering leaving the key in the ignition to keep everything unlocked AND leaving the original switch in place. Obviously, the key would serve no purpose other than allowing the steering wheel to stay unlocked.

I was thinking that I could procure a new switch to modify and then just plug it in to the existing harness.

Yes! Very Interested in the PDF (I'll get with you later on it)

Gonna show you a couple or 3 or more pics of what you are up against

Insure you have the straight column ignition switch (tilt is a mirror image of it) See link

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/carquest-by-bwd-ignition-starter-switch-cs84/5971217-P?searchTerm=ignition+switch

I used heavy wire (12 gauge) on every thing except for things with low load (16 gauge). I probably went overboard, I figger better safe than sorry.

I contemplated just using female spade stake-ons and plugging each one into each of the two harness connectors, each female to it's correct position.

This then seemed like a bad idea!

Everything would sorta be backwards in its positions, not to mention being crunched up under the dash trying to figger out the positions, then later down the road one of them coming loose and leaving me searching for the problem.


The one BIG plug in is the best way to go!

You can use any kind of toggles you want

I got these two lighted safety toggles at Radio Shack for about $5 a pop

The momentary switch is spring loaded back to center ("off") and is momentary up or down, whichever way you approach it (starts either position). The one pictured is from Radio Shack, it was not heavy enough in amps (lasted a few weeks). I wound up getting a heavy one from an electrical supply house about $8 (I'll try to find out the amp rating for you). It has 6 male terminals (3 are for one side, 3 for the other)

One set of three are used for starting, the other three are used to verify the brake system is operational.

The original ign switch performs the "Brake test", You and I just didn't know it! While cranking, your brake light in the speedometer blinks real fast. If it does not, either your brake hydraulics may be malfunctioning or your bulb is blown! This test is also checked in places that require inspections.

The third toggle is an off/ on - strictly for security- kills everything- Sorta hid outta site. Also from Radio Shack.

I know!

I know!

We'll get to the good parts soon!

1) showing you the disassembled ign switch

2) This what we are gonna solder on- the opposite side from the male spades

3) Don't solder nuthin' yet! This sorta what it will eventually look like (I used my old one and had to clean it real good before I could solder). Wait till I get to the diagrams! I am using wire I had on hand, if you change colors, you will have to keep track of which color it takes the place of.

4) the goodies, less the aluminum angle iron mount

I have like 4-5 diagrams on how to wire it (my own drawings), it's been a good while, I UNDERSTAND THEM WELL, I wanna make sure I give you good diagrams that are fully understandable! I think they might impress you (they did me anyway! LOL!)

Your input so far?

'My a good teacher thus far?

The Medic

This is excellent info and well presented.

I verified that I do in fact have the straight column ignition switch. Is the switch fairly easy to take apart? From the picture, it appears it just kind of "unsnaps"

I will get to work getting some toggle switches. Will this switch work for the momentary ?Says its rated for 20 amps.

https://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Handle-Momentary-Toggle-Switch/dp/B000LFVFA8/ref=pd_sim_sbs_263_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=NKTC39P8XGTZSEJX05EE

Would it be OK to wire everything using 12 ga? or do I need to plan on getting some 16 ga wire as well? I'll probably try and mimic what you did just because it will be easier for me to trace my steps.

Interesting fact regarding the brake test. Had no idea this technology existed on these Jeeps esp in the 70's!

Pics are awesome and do a good job of helping me visualize everything. The manual I have is 118 mb, so when you are ready for it, I can dropbox it or would be happy to mail it to you on a CD. It's great for printing out a page or two to take out to the shop.

Yo Boss!

Letting you know I ain't forgot you!

Have a sick CJ about 8 miles away, They called me, hoping they wouldn't have to call the family in!

See you soon as I can!

The Medic

No Problem!!! Sounds like they got the right man!

Glad we could get it fixed please use 2CarPros.com anytime we are here to help

Best, Ken

So this feller yesterday shelled out his T-5 tranny in his '85 or '86 CJ-7. He just didn't wanna accept that no magic could be performed last night to make it all better! I can see me getting drug all thru this! I've really been trying to get my '46 Willys ready for a paint job that is 20 years overdue! Between the wife and pals it's really hard.

I had to revamp my original computer drawings! Hard to read as I originally done 'em. Now that I talked the Wife out of the 46" Flat screen for my monitor ('course she got a 55" to take it's place) It's a lot EZer to see and use Microsoft Paint.

You can use piggy-backs on the the terminals to save room like I did or looking back on it,

It mighta been better if I had maybe just crimped 2 wires into the same connector, in those that share the same spade. That woulda cut down on a bunch of crap in the tight quarters.

Look my work over (best you can) I'm not as perfect as the females think I am! I looked it over 4 or 5 times after I got done.

When I soldered, I had a spray bottle of water to cool things off before I started melting thru to the other side.

Remember in this diagram, you are not soldering to the terminal the colored line is to! You are soldering to the other end of that terminal. (On the backside of the ign switch)

Let me know if you understand all of this.

Once you are good to go, on the deal, I'll show you the security switch, where and why I put it there.

Out of curiosity, what I did you go thru to find my push button mod?

I reckon Ken (the boss) thought we were done?

Am I good or what??? LOL!

Your turn

The Medic

Pics are a no show?

Trying again

The Medic

Once again, Great pics and info. I understand the wiring for the most part, but am still 15% ignorant when it comes to electric current, so bear with me.

Question 1: Is there a "top" or "bottom" or "left or right" to the momentary switch. I understand that the switch is basically split down the middle from top to bottom and that the "middle" poles feed from the ignition switch. I can't really tell from the pic which way the switch is laying. If its like the toggles in the pic, the "top of the switch should be to the far right. I've attached a (pic 1) that may help.Disregard the "left side" comment because obviously that would change depending on top or bottom. Was just trying to figure out which was top and which was bottom or if it even matters.

Question 2: The second toggle in the diagram appears to be wired a bit different in your actual harness(pic2). I made a note on the pic below of what I am talking about. Could be that it makes sense where it is, but with my limited knowledge, just want to make sure.

Question 3: Do you recommend 12ga wire for everything?

Question 4: I have not procured the new switch just yet. Any tips or tricks to dissembling it?

Got any pics of the '46 Willys? Would love to see em.

Thanks!

1st Pic didn't attach. Its the important one!

I've been studying hard and just wanted to make sure I am SURE about all this. Had another question regarding the ignition switch as well. It appears to me that the wiring diagram is showing a different pin to be soldered to for the brake failure feed when compared to the actual switch you show. I've attached a pic that may help. Disregard the "extra" yellow arrow in the far right of the pic. I forgot to delete. Apologize for peppering you with all these questions! Thank you in advance for your patience!!!

I think I just couldn't see the pin to solder to in the pic. Pretty positive you have it correct. Didnt mean to question your expertise!!!

Got the switch and have it apart. I'm still convinced the wiring diagram may be showing the brake failure feed on the incorrect pin to solder to. Attached pic of switch

I really wish I could edit my response. I'm positive you have it soldered correctly with the diagram.........I think. Thanks again.

Time flies!

I made that mod in 2007 and took most of the pics then.

A few years later somebody wanted a diagram, I was not as"in tune" with all of the researching and checking and double checking that I was doing "for me" originally.

I did really try to make the requested one right.

Upon looking it over for you, I did try to simplify it, as I looked at it "NOW" it just looked too complicated.

Sooooo, I just re did the whole generic pic of the switches just for you!

Yep, I did put the wire in the wrong spot on the diagram! I got it fixed, verify that!

I have a few more pics I made to keep me straight back then, I thought their poor quality would confuse you so I didn't post 'em.

You can use your switch in any orientation.

To keep you on track as far as the spades go, if you have the toggle moving up and down, on the backside, the 3 on the left go together and the 3 on the right go together. A voltmeter continuity test will prove this.

Let's try the right side 1st. If you put one lead in the center and the other above or below on a terminal, then flip (and hold) the toggle, the one above or below center will show continuity. Move to the other terminal and the toggle the other way. The Left side will work the same. THE LEFT AND RIGHT SIDES ARE NOT CONNECTED!

This switch can be used in various other ways!

Below

1) Combining 2 old pics, to see where I messed up making your diagram.

2) Same pic above, just the full size

3) Same in pic 1, This one is not turned upside down! Not rotated either!

I'm gonna reply below this post so that the Corrected version is all by itself!

Keep me straight, your turn!

The Medic

THIS IS THE RIGHT AND CORRECTED DIAGRAM!

The Medic

Appreciate the updated diagrams!!! I thought I was going crazy analyzing all that today. I'm tryin to learn as I go and not just trying to get the mod completed.

The momentary switch explanation makes sense .Going to stick a multi-meter on it tomorrow and check it out.

What's your recommendation for removing all the fresh di-electric grease in the new switch I bought?

Would love to see some pics of that old Willys

That little mess up had me checking and rechecking forever! You know, I still feel unsure!

I think it's right now

The black wire on the Jeep connector plugs into the spade that was in question. On the Jeep connector the 2 yellow wires (together) are on the same side as the black wire

So when you flip it upside down, turn it around, and punt that puppy...

I had to find the "OTHER SIDE" of the 2 yellow wires, that told me which side the black was on.

More flipping and turning in my head! As the Jeep connectors are not shown in the PUSH BUTTON diagram

I arrived at IN THE FINISHED DIAGRAM, Where the 2 YELLOW Jeep Connector wire would hover above the Ignition switch. This would be the black wire's side too.

Sorry, you seem really into it too! Am I right now?!

The Medic

Nice looking Willys!!! Maybe someday! Can't wait to see the finished paint job.

Appreciate you revisiting the wiring. I've triple checked myself and believe the last "corrected diagram" you uploaded is the correct one. Brake feed should be that bottom left pin as you have it.

Got some 12 ga wire last night and my toggles came in yesterday.

Checked out the OHM meter yesterday on the momentary. Did just as you described above.

Having HVAC issues since last night, so put this on hold for a bit to address that. Gotta love living in the south where the HVAC runs year round .

What region are you in?

Let's stay updated with the switch building!

Every real Jeep guy needs a '40s Willy!

The Medic

In south Alabama.

HVAC is leaking at the back of drain pan from the base of evap coils. Condensate drain is working fine, coils are spotless. Either its not leveled properly or something else is going on. Drain pan is plastic so it cant be rusted out . Gotta love it.

Hey CJ Please start a new question for a separate problem. Don't want to dilute this thread.

Nice work BTW

Best, Ken

Well.... here's the soldered up switch. Hope it can pass The Medic's inspection. I tinned the wires up real have prior to adding them. Connections are extremely strong.

Now the challenging part (at least for me) ......wiring the switches.

Got to make a "dash" to mount them on and Waiting on connectors to arrive from Amazon.

Will keep you posted .

Here's my "dash". Gotta get my security toggle still. Going to mount it so the switch is in the "channel" facing towards the front .

Used and old license plate . I'm a "use what you got kind of guy" .

Quick question. Can you label or confirm the polarity of the prongs for me in the attached pic?

My toggles are configured a bit different , so I would like to be sure.

Based on your diagram it appears that prong closest to the ground is the negative and the next prof over is positive .

Is this correct ? My prongs are backwards from yours . Positive being on the bottom.

Thank you

Always leaving something out, assuming the other end understands the little stuff!

I'll back up a bit.

The safety switches I used are ON/OFF (2 positions only)

https://www.radioshack.com/products/safety-switch

Notice it has 3 spade terminals. On "mine", 2 terminals are copper colored and the 3rd is sorta silverish.

The 2 copper ones are actually the "switch"

The silver one is simply a ground for the lighted tip of the toggle. If you don't want the lighted tip to shine, you just don't ground it!

Now, I chose to have my 2 switches to light up when "ON", so I grounded them! In the quest for simplicity, I jumped from one to the other and only gave it only one ground.

Here's the good part!

I also JUMPED the brake failure's ground in along with it!

Soooooo, I only had to make one ground connection to the dash/ body.

Now to make this a bit more able to understand!

I coulda just bought 2 Plain Jane ON/ OFF toggles (no bells and whistles) They woulda only had 2 terminals, when turned "ON" the 2 wires would connect together/ when turned OFF, one of 'em would go dead.

So on the 2 terminals (that are switched) IT DOES NOT MATTER WHICH ONE IS HOT OR WHICH ONE TRAVELS TO THE ACCESSORY!

However in this scenario, we have no grounds for lights, We must ground the brake failure ground to "ground" all by itself.

Here's my concern

Did you buy 3 position switches for "IGN" and "ACCs" (as you saw 3 terminals on mine)? Which would be wrong.

Or did you buy 2 position switches (like mine) (lighted?) (w/ 3 terminals)

If you have lighted switches (3 terminals-like mine) Are the switch bodies marked to distinguish the switch terminals from the "light's ground"?

I really don't mean to make this hard! Or hard to read!

Oh Yeah!

Your solder job looks great!

Your Turn

The Medic

I bought switches like yours. The ground is just on the bottom and not on the top like yours.

My switches are marked. + on the bottom terminal and acc on top terminal. Looking at the diagram you made, it appears that your switches are similar . + coming on the bottom and acc in the middle , ground up top.

I think I have it, just want to be consistent with what you've done in case I run into issues.

Going to go slow and methodical when I begin "assembling " this. My connectors should arrive here Thursday .

Here's a pic of one of my switches


Btw, love the canoe rack !

Like I said, The wire is really positive as it comes to the switch from the "Hot source", it's also positive as it leaves the switch.

What? That's stupid!

Think of this DC set-up as:

There is no switch at all!

Let's say the wire came from the ign switch (Hot 12V), let's run thru your switch holder (not the switch), make a hard bend in the wire

From that bend, we're going back to the ign switch.

Let's hook on to an accessory wire that you have already soldered in.

Just for giggles, pretend this wire runs the heater fan (other stuff too)

Well right now

You can turn on the heater fan with it's switch, Any time! The only control is the switch on the dash. Anytime!

Let's kinda look at the circuit

Hot 12V (basically from the ign switch connector) The ignition switch is no longer in existence!

The meanders around and goes to the blower motor.

This wire is POSITIVE!

The wire coming out of the blower is NEGATIVE (it gets grounded somewhere)

This is where POS and NEG come into play

Lets go back now

Our GOAL here is to DUPLICATE the ignition switch, just in a different configuration!

So, what we're doing is Copying it's functions with switches.

Remember back there where we made a hard bend in the wire at your switch holder?

Cut the wire.

It's still a positive wire, Now one side is dead. Hook it to the switch. It's now a controllable positive wire!

Now that I have gone thru all of that.

I sorta may know why it's marked POS

DUH!

I'd say they want you to to hook the ALWAYS HOT wire to that POS terminal. Reason? Probably the lighted tip is internal hooked to the other side (what would be the so-called negative side terminal)

Hooking the Always Hot wire to the NEG or "so called wrong side" would result in the lighted tip always staying on never going off!

I would delete all of the ranting I did way above, but it took a while to peck it out, and it's still "correct info".

Bottom line

Out of the old ign switch is "HOT" wherever it goes (a switch) Call that the hot side. Hook it to POS on the switch if it is denoted.

Wherever any switch obtains it's HOT from, we can call this the "Inlet juice" or POS for the sake of the lighted switch. In the case of the security switch, once it's turned on, the Juice leaving it becomes the HOT for the next switch in line

Have I messed your head up really good?

Other info to check out later on

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/jeep-cj7-1985-jeep-cj7-stalls-when-hot

The Medic

I'm getting there. Understanding it 90%. Electrical has always baffled me, but it should be common sense.

I've attached a pic with some additional comments. CORRECTION - What I meant in the comment to the far right was the main feed from the security.

Your guidance is much appreciated!! Thank you sir.

On my switch it did not matter which terminal I used for the hot "IN" or the hot "OUT"

On yours, the "+" mark must mean the 12V "IN"

Your "light" may not work if you swapped it to look like mine!

SO,

The circle of confusion you drew, just swap my wires on my switch to the opposite terminals.

You have the theory right!

The "HOTs OUT" of the Security Switch will each go to the "+" (POS) side of your safety switches.

Is this what you needed to know? Yep, ask!, better safe than sorry!

The Medic

Yes sir . This is the explanation I was after . I believe I got it now. My connectors should arrive Friday .

Thank you !

Well.....it's official.

I'm a member of the club, thanks to your guidance.

Just need to clean up the wire arrangement and mount this baby in its permanent home

I can't thank you enough for your help . Is there a way to private message on here . I'd like to get your info to get that manual from you .