Pop-up headlight doors will not go up and headlight bulbs not on

1999 PONTIAC FIREBIRD

40,000 MILES • 3.8L • 6 CYL • 2WD • AUTOMATIC

JALFANO24

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55 POSTS
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We had a situation where the turn switch inside the car for the headlights was clicking while in the off position. This was at random and noticed while it was driving. It started on its own and stopped after many minutes. As a result, the headlight doors will not go up, their pop-up style, nor are the headlight lamps turning on.

After several looks at fuses and relays, I was able to replace the larger 50A fuse with no luck. But after some sequence of events, disconnected the negative terminal of the battery, removed the fuse, and reconnected everything, turning the switch to turn headlights on allowed the doors to popup but the bulbs were not on. Furthermore, the doors did go down after turning off but never came back up when attempting a second time.
I would find it hard and difficult to think it is the motors that operate the doors since after a sequence of events they did go up/down. There are no sounds of grinding in the motors of the headlights and besides that, both going out at the same time is a little unlikely.
Having said that I cannot seem to know how to troubleshoot the electrical part of this issue.

Since the turn dial switch that turns the lights on/off was clicking perhaps I should start there?
Should that be replaced, or I do have an electrical device to test amps/ohms/voltage, what can I check regarding that?

Thanks.

Jun 16, 2022 at 5:42 AM

JALFANO24

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55 POSTS

See if the video works from the clicking heard while driving.

Video (Click to enlarge)

Jun 16, 2022 at 5:47 AM

KASEKENNY

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18,907 POSTS

This may be as simple as a switch issue. However, there is some testing that we can do to try and prove this.

Here is a guide that will help with this:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-wiring

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-voltmeter

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-an-electrical-relay-and-wiring-control-circuit

I am attaching the wiring diagram below, but we need to start with the switch. We need to check and see if you have voltage going into it on the red wire on pin J.

Next, we need to turn the headlights on and check for voltage on pin E and C.

Pin E is to open the doors and pin C is to turn the lights on. So, we should have 12 volts on both when they are turned on.

If we do, then we will need to move onto the module but let's start with a switch issue as that makes the most sense.

Thanks

Image (Click to enlarge)

Jun 16, 2022 at 12:39 PM

JALFANO24

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55 POSTS

Okay. I am attracting the results of the measurements to the switch. The diagram you sent me only has one red wire, I have two as shown. Perhaps the results will tell you something. I also sent a pic of the meter used and the setting.

Jun 19, 2022 at 9:56 AM

JALFANO24

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See attachments.

Images (Click to enlarge)

Jun 19, 2022 at 9:57 AM

KASEKENNY

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18,907 POSTS

You have the meter set on Alternating current. You need to be on direct current. I circled the setting below.

Let's try this again and see what we have. Thanks

Image (Click to enlarge)

Jun 19, 2022 at 5:55 PM

JALFANO24

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55 POSTS

Okay, my mistake. Attached are new results.

Image (Click to enlarge)

Jun 19, 2022 at 6:18 PM

KASEKENNY

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18,907 POSTS

If you take a look at the wiring diagram the yellow wire is the command wire from the switch to the lamps. If you have 0 volts when it is on and off, then the switch or the wiring is the issue.

Have you replaced the switch? If not, I would be replacing that based on this info.

Thanks

Jun 20, 2022 at 11:25 AM

JALFANO24

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55 POSTS

Thanks everyone. I have ordered a switch and will swap out and report back with results.

Jun 21, 2022 at 8:07 AM

KASEKENNY

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Sounds great. Thanks for the updates and we look forward to hearing the good news when you get back to us.

Thanks

Jun 21, 2022 at 9:42 AM

JALFANO24

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55 POSTS

Okay. So, I put another switch in and it did not work. Not only did it not pop up the headlights, the clicking returned. When the switch is in the off position and plugged in it clicks like It originally did in the first video I posted. The multimeter shows similar measurements on the same colors as before.

I am at a loss now.

Thoughts?

Jun 23, 2022 at 5:06 PM

JALFANO24

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55 POSTS

One more nugget.

In disconnected the negative terminal on the battery, plugged the switch back in and turned it on for the headlights. When I plugged the negative terminal back on, after 10 minutes of being disconnected, the headlight doors popped open since the switch was left on, but the lamps were not on. When I turned the lights off the doors went down but wouldn’t pop back up.

Also, the first time I swapped out the switch and disconnected the negative terminal, the trunk latch released itself and opened. As if I hit the button in the remote which no one did.

Also, after connecting the negative terminal the first time there was quite a bit of sparking. I did not have it disconnected for long unlike the second time where i purposely left it disconnected for 10 minutes.

Maybe this bit of news will help?

Jun 23, 2022 at 5:22 PM

KASEKENNY

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That is strange. However, I am wondering if we overlooked the most basic thing. It would not be the first time but if the battery is drained then there will be all sorts of issues like this. That would explain everything so let's just have the battery load checked.

You can do this test, but the best way is to have it load tested at a parts store.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-battery-load-test

If we don't verify this first, then we are going to be making more mistakes.

Jun 23, 2022 at 6:44 PM

JALFANO24

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55 POSTS

Okay, I will do that, but I should tell you the battery is less than 12 months old.

Perhaps this might explain why the driver power window will sometimes not go back up after the first trip down with no trouble. The only way to have it go up is to press the button every minute or so and then it only goes up a few inches at a time.

Jun 23, 2022 at 7:13 PM

JALFANO24

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Okay, load test completed, and it passed. I will try and load a video of the event. A new battery purchased and installed in 12/2021.

Jun 24, 2022 at 6:52 AM

JALFANO24

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55 POSTS

Next steps?

Videos (Click to enlarge)

Jun 24, 2022 at 6:53 AM

JALFANO24

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Anything else I can try at this point?

Jun 27, 2022 at 4:39 AM

KASEKENNY

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Okay. At this point we are going to have to start tracking the voltage through the system and find out where we are losing it.

Start with the brown wire from the switch to the module.

When you have them on you should have voltage on this circuit so let's start with this and go from there.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-wiring

If you do, then we need to check the output voltage of the module to the door motors.

See the wiring diagram below.

Thanks

Image (Click to enlarge)

Jun 27, 2022 at 7:30 PM

JALFANO24

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55 POSTS

Okay. I'm not sure exactly how to do this but here is where I started: I bought a continuity tester with a simple bulb and tested the following. All three fuse boxes but not the relays, how do I do that if needed?

The three fuses circled in red, did not test for continuity while the rest did. Not sure if this means anything.

And I tested the wiring plugs to the switch and the headlight control module. See pics for results.

Note: The one plug on the headlight control module was unplugged and tested with the headlight switch in the on position, when I plugged it back into the control module the headlight doors went up, headlamps did not go on, and when I turned the switch off, they went down.

Hope this helps.

Let me know where to go from here. I have purposely not dismantled the headlight parts to get to the motor.

Images (Click to enlarge)

Jul 1, 2022 at 4:54 AM

JALFANO24

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55 POSTS

Next fuse box, this one under hood.

Jul 1, 2022 at 4:54 AM

JALFANO24

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Trying again.

Images (Click to enlarge)

Jul 1, 2022 at 4:56 AM

JALFANO24

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Second fuse box under-hood.

Images (Click to enlarge)

Jul 1, 2022 at 4:57 AM

JALFANO24

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I should mention that the engine was started and running during testing. Not sure if you were assuming that or not. :)

Jul 1, 2022 at 5:08 AM

STRAILER

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53,854 POSTS

I think the clicking you are hearing is the built-in circuit breaker inside the switch, can you unplug the headlights and then turn the switch on to see if it still makes the noise? We are trying to see if it is a short in the wiring or the headlight motors. Please let us know.

Jul 4, 2022 at 12:00 PM

JALFANO24

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55 POSTS

You want me to disconnect the plugs at the headlight control module or somewhere else?

Jul 5, 2022 at 2:20 PM

STRAILER

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Can you get to the plugs at each headlight motor? Please disconnect those and see if the switch still makes that noise.

Jul 6, 2022 at 12:30 PM

JALFANO24

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Oh, that is different and a challenge. I believe I need to disconnect the bezels and other parts to get to the motor...correct?

Jul 6, 2022 at 1:05 PM

STRAILER

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You might enable to get to the motor wiring connectors from underneath the car.

Jul 6, 2022 at 5:15 PM

JALFANO24

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Okay, so this is a challenge to get to the headlight motors.

Can you give me a wiring diagram of each motor? Or better yet, can you tell me where the fusible link is located, is there more than one, wondering if it is possible that the fusible link went bad?

Also, please advise how to check to make sure the grounds are ok. I think we need to make sure that everything is grounded. thoughts?

Jul 27, 2022 at 7:20 AM

STRAILER

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53,854 POSTS

It is the fusible link Z in the power distribution center. Here is a wiring diagram so you can see how the system works and this guide can help you test for power and ground:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-test-light-circuit-tester

Check out the diagrams (below). Please let us know what happens.

Image (Click to enlarge)

Jul 27, 2022 at 12:55 PM

JALFANO24

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55 POSTS

Okay, so, if the headlight lamps will not turn on, is it possible that is why the doors do not swing open? Because the entire time the headlamps have not gone one while unplugging the two connectors on the headlight control module, with the headlight switch on, triggers the headlamp doors to go up. Thoughts?

Sep 19, 2022 at 5:58 AM

STRAILER

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Yep, this sounds like the headlamp activation control module is not working. here is the location so you can check it out. Check out the images (below). Please let us know what happens.

Images (Click to enlarge)

Sep 19, 2022 at 5:35 PM