won't start after warmed up

2002 PONTIAC MONTANA
86,000 MILES • 6 CYL • AWD • AUTOMATIC
Avatar
OHBOY
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
i an currently unemployed and have limited resources to keep vechile running.spent much money at dearlerships to repair this vechile.but as usual they can't find the problem.at my wits end need this vechile to get kids to school,and elder;y parents to doctors amd so on.any help at all will be greatly apreciated. vechile will start fine in morning but when i get to my destination and return to start car it will not start,but if you wait about a hour or so it will run without any problems.but after stopping somewher for a minute it will not start. but if you wait for about a hour it will start and run fine. don't have any extra money to donate if i could i would most certainly donate plaese help me if you can.
thank you and may god blees
Mar 1, 2010 at 7:52 PM
Advertisement
Avatar
THIS IS MIKE
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 686 POSTS
When the engine won't start you need to find out which system fuel or spark is not working and go from there. Here is a troubleshooting page to get started but it sounds like the engine coolant temperature sensor is out.

https://www.2carpros.com/first_things/car_cranks_but_wont_start.htm

Please run down this guide and report back.
Mar 3, 2010 at 5:16 PM
Avatar
WEEKENDCAPER
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
Have same problem exactley, was wondering if you have gotten it fixed, at my wits end. I just got the security completely redone as they thought that was the problem, i done a complete tune up including a fuel filter, new crankshaft sensor, some oil pressure sensor. Had fuel pressure tested which was fine. Not sure where to go from here,,,the dealer told me I'm chasing an expensive ghost,,,,,i'm soo invested and stubborn i can't quit,,,,want it fixed NOW,,,,,,,PLEASE HELP......
Mar 26, 2011 at 5:09 PM
Advertisement
Avatar
RASMATAZ
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 75,992 POSTS
Is the security system squared away and functional??

It takes 3-element of combustion to get an engine to crank and start are as follows compression, fuel and spark-

Next time it decides to make you wait, don't do below immediately to determine if its fuel or spark problem and get back with some testing results so we can to continue to troubleshoot-

Get a helper disconnect a sparkplug wire or 2 and ground it to the engine at least 3/16 away from ground -have helper crank engine over-do you have a snapping blue spark? If so-you have a fuel related problem,Do you hear the fuel pump come On when you turn key on? If not check fuel pump fuse and fuel pump relay if so, check the fuel pressure to rule out the fuel filter/fuel pump/pressure regulator and listen to the injector/s are they pulsing or hook up a noid light. No snapping blue spark continue to troubleshoot the ignition system-power input to the coil/coil packs,coil's resistances,distributor pick-up coil, ignition control module, cam and crank sensors and computer Note: If it doesn't apply disregard it

Mar 27, 2011 at 12:20 AM
Avatar
DENNJONAK
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
Hey, has anyone found a solution to this?! I have the exact same issue. Van will start cold, but restarting while warm just doesn't happen. It cranks fine and even acts like it has fuel for a second or two, chugs, and then quits. It seems apparent that the fuel pump and injectors are working fine because you can drive it around all day without it dying. It's only an issue upon warm start-up. The only code I've seen so far is for an evap leak. One other thing: sometimes the fuel gauge drops to Empty while driving, but the van continues to run fine. All these symptoms seemed to appear around the same time. Any ideas???
Apr 5, 2011 at 2:02 AM
Avatar
DAN HENDERSON
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
This problem and had to replace the Coolant temperature sensor cost me $34.00
Dec 21, 2017 at 6:43 PM
Avatar
CARADIODOC
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 34,306 POSTS
What all of you are describing is real common on any brand of engine. The symptom will be no spark and no injector pulses. It is usually caused by a failing crankshaft position sensor or camshaft position sensor. They fail by becoming heat-sensitive, then they work again after cooling down for about an hour. While driving, natural air flow keeps them cool. When a hot engine is stopped, the heat migrates up to the sensors and causes them to fail.

To add to the misery, diagnostic fault codes often won't be set just from cranking the engine. They may only set while a stalled engine is coasting to a stop. For that, the best approach is to connect a scanner so you can view live data. Those sensors should be listed with some type of indication to show whether their signals are showing up during cranking. For example, on my Chrysler scanners, they're listed with a "No" or "Present". I know GM scanners show the same thing, but I don't know what their terminology is.

The two-wire coolant temperature sensors are low-level and only contribute slightly to fuel metering calculations. One notable exception is when starting a GM engine. Corrosion between the adjacent terminals in the connector will cause lower overall resistance, and therefore lower signal voltage, which equates to hotter coolant. In response, the Engine Computer will command a smaller priming squirt of fuel than is needed. You'll have hard starting or a long crank time, but you will still have spark. A common observation is the engine will start, then run fine after getting a squirt of starting fluid.

Coolant and air temperature sensors have an extremely low failure rate because they have just one component inside them. Ford had a rash of failures in the early '90s where it looks like an internal connection broke loose and caused resistance, signal voltage, and ultimately, idle speed to bounce around wildly. Other than that, temperature sensors are pretty trouble-free. Most problems are caused by wiring and connector terminal problems. Also, for any visitors who aren't aware, temperature sensors for Engine Computers will always have two wires in their plugs. If you find a coolant temperature sensor with just one wire, that's for the dash gauge.

For the comment about the fuel level gauge dropping to "empty", a common cause of that is a weak spring-loaded movable contact on the float arm in the tank. On most vehicles you can buy a new sending unit, but on the early to mid '90s Chrysler minivans, once the pump is lifted part-way out of the tank, it takes just a minute to lift a plastic hook, then slide the float arm off, then you can bend the contact a little to put more pressure on the sensing element. That fix is more reliable than installing a new sending unit which is likely to develop the same problem in a few years. I know that can be done on some other brands too. The common symptom on the Chryslers was the gauge will read correctly any time the level is between "full" and "1/2", and between "1/4" and "empty". It would drop to "empty" when the level was between "1/4" and "1/2".
Dec 21, 2017 at 7:24 PM
Avatar
BIGBUMPYTRUCK
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
Electrical problem
2002 Pontiac Montana 6 cyl Front Wheel Drive Automatic

I have replaced the fuel pump in the van because the fuel gauge was not working anyway.I thought this would solve my non start issue also and it did not.You can prime the TBI with a little fuel and it will fire and run until that runs out but it will not start by itself.Any ideas what to look for?
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
RASMATAZ
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 75,992 POSTS
Hi bigbumpytruck, Welcome to 2carpros and TY for the donation

Do you hear the fuel pump come On for a few secs?

Check the fuel pressure if its within specs though its new and also check if the injectors are pulsing/spraying fuel
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
BIGBUMPYTRUCK
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
We checked the fuel pressure and it was ok.Had a friend that had a diagnostic tool come by and plug into it.It said something about checking the PCM fuse so we did.We could not hear the injectors pulsing but he could do a balance check on each injector and we could hear them pulse iniividually.The fuel pressur would also drop when each one pulsed,this tells me the injectors are working.It seem's as if maybe the PCM maybe has went out and is nt telling the injectors to open is all I can figure out.We were also told the ICM controlled the injectors to so we had it checked at the local prts store and it checked ok.What do you think about it being the PCM and can it be replaced with a used one or are we better off with a brand new one?
Thank's
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
RASMATAZ
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 75,992 POSTS
It sounds like the computer injector ground drivers is defective-you're better off with an OEM part computer.
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
SMILEYSCHIC
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
turns over good will try to start one time and thats it. Changed fuel pump, fuel filter, crank sensor. Gets plenty of gas to fuel rail. Runs good and started fine before. Went to start it next day and just turns over.
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
SATURNTECH9
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 30,869 POSTS
Is the security light on solid or flashing?
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
SATURNTECH9
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 30,869 POSTS
Also will it start and run good for a few seconds if you spray some carb spray in throttle body?
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
SMILEYSCHIC
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
Not sure about the security light, but yes if you spray starting fluid in it, it will start then die.
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
SATURNTECH9
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 30,869 POSTS
Lets see what the actual fuel pressure is? Also if the security light is on? If the security light is on dont worry about the actual fuel pressure just yet.
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
KULAN12
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
A 2002 Pontiac Montana that over the last 3 months has chosen to start 90% of the time, but will crank but not turn over the other 10% of the time. Usually when I am out somewhere. No check engine light, and I have had the rear crankshaft position senor replaced. Still the problem exists. If it does not turn over, the tach and speedo register nothing. If I wait 15-60 minutes it then starts no problem. Once running their are no problems. Every time I have left it with my mechanic it run fines so it he has not been able to find anything wrong. We saw an 0341 camshaft code, but felt the crankshaft was the one to go after. Any ideas
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
2CARPRO JACK
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 11,533 POSTS
The PCM isnt going to set a camshaft code when the crank sensor is the problem.The onboard diagnostics see failures in a particular circuit and let you know where to go.Why would he replace the crank sensor when it had a cam sensor code? doesnt make any sense
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
SMILEYSCHIC
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
Ok will do that today.
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
KULAN12
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
Forget about what has been replaced. What do you think is the cause of the problem. 3x this weekend it ran fine to a location and did not start when we left. Only to come back 30 minutes later and it starts.
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
SMILEYSCHIC
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
fuel pressure is 50lbs
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
2CARPRO JACK
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 11,533 POSTS
You will have to check for spark and fuel pressure to see which is missing.If it had a cam sensor code in it, replace the sensor, but I would still see what is missing when it wont start.
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
SATURNTECH9
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 30,869 POSTS
The fuel pressure looks good is the security light on solid or flashing with the key in the run position?
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
KULAN12
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
I checked for spark and fuel pressure and both are fine. Fuel pressure was about 56 when it was cranking but not turning over and there was spark. There is no check engine light, so I am receiveing no codes. ANy other thoughts?
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
SMILEYSCHIC
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
when I turn the key in the on position the light does not come on at all. Without the key on it flashes.
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
JEMFRANKS
  • MEMBER
  • 7 POSTS
I have spark and fuel in the fuel rail. Have changed plugs and wires, fuel filter and starter. weather does not seem to be a factor. Once the engine is running it runs great. My mechanic says he does not know what it is, he said we would have to start changing sensor.Do you have any ideas?
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
2CARPRO JACK
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 11,533 POSTS
Now you need to check for injector pulse.You will need to plug a "noid" light into the injector plug to see if it flashes while you crank the engine. Still thinking you may have a bad cam sensor
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
DJCL
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 767 POSTS
Are there aney pcm codes. If yes what are thay. We need to know if we are having a spark or fuel. Problem. Check fuel pressure check spark @ the plug on 2 wires. Let me know how you make out.
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
SATURNTECH9
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 30,869 POSTS
Have you checked to see if the injector fuse is blown? Do you have power to one of the wires going to injectors with the key in the run position.
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
KULAN12
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
One school of thought is the Pass Key security system. The other, the SERVICE ENGINE SOON light just came on and stated CAM SENSOR A code. Not sure if this will fix the occassional non starting, but I will replace it.
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
JEMFRANKS
  • MEMBER
  • 7 POSTS
There are no codes, fuel pressure is 50 psi, checked spark on the front three plugs and I have spark on all three.
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
SMILEYSCHIC
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
Fuse is good. Yes there is power to the injectors
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
2 LINSEY
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 287 POSTS
We appreciate your donation and look forward to helping you in the future. Thank you
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
DJCL
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 767 POSTS
Is this what you have when its not starting ?
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
SATURNTECH9
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 30,869 POSTS
Have you ever heard of a injector noid light?You plug it into each fuel injector connector then crank the engine watching for it to flash.It wouldn't be a bad idea to scan the engine and body control module for codes as well.
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
JEMFRANKS
  • MEMBER
  • 7 POSTS
When it is not running I still have spark and 50 psi fuel pressure.
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
SMILEYSCHIC
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
We reset the security system. turned the key to the on position let it sit for 10 minutes, turned it off and the van started right up. We let it run for about 5 minutes shut it off and tried to start it again but it wouldn't start. Did we do the security system right?
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
FIXITMR
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 9,990 POSTS
are injectors working when no start happens?
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
SATURNTECH9
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 30,869 POSTS
If it started from one 10 min cycle then it has nothing to do with learning the pass lock sensor.But sounds like you have a problem with the security system. Your going to need to have professional scan tool that can read the body control codes.I would need the exact code numbers not code descriptions? Might even need that scan tool to diagnose the problem by looking at live security data.You could have a bad pass lock sensor . That's most likely the problem.
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
MR.ELDRIDGE
  • MEMBER
  • 27 POSTS
Have no fuel pressure at rail. Have injector pulse have spark. Fuel pump works 90 psi at filter 0 psi on rail.
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)
Avatar
JEMFRANKS
  • MEMBER
  • 7 POSTS
don't know how do I test.
Nov 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM (Merged)