No crank no start, codes P1800, P0340 and P0345. Since P0340 and P0345?

Hi,

When you say it was flat, are you referring to the battery? In other words, the starter wasn't engaging. I ask because one of the possible causes of the cam sensor codes is a weak battery.

If that isn't the case, you can check the cam sensors. I check the resistance as shown in pic 1 below. However, it is odd that both would fail at the same time.

If they check good, then we need to check the vias control solenoid valve. The remaining pics are the procedures for testing.

Let me know what you find or if you have other questions.

Take care,

joe

See pics below.

I am sorry, I am just finding out that the message that went through was not the complete one I sent. Below is the additional message that I meant to have added.
Once I had the problem, I checked the battery, and it was okay at 12.77V. The lights and radio worked. On getting the scan codes, my scan tool advised to replace to cam position sensors, so I ordered the sensors for bank 1 and bank 2. I replaced the position sensor for bank 2, the one in front as it was easier to remove and replace. After doing this, I tried to start the car, but it still would not start and stayed No crank No start. I then ran the scan tool again and all the three codes were cleared. However, the car is still not starting. I did not bother to replace the sensor for bank 1 since it's more difficult to get to and that doesn't seem to be a problem anymore after I replaced bank 2's sensor.

I am now wondering if there is a different place I need to start checking.

I was going to check if there is a voltage drop between the battery and the starter. I have checked the battery connectors, there is no corrosion and those look good. I do not know if there is a starter solenoid in an accessible place in this car or if the only one is by the starter itself.

Hi,

If the starter isn't working, I feel we need to get that taken care of before we move on.

I attached the wiring schematic below for the starter motor, so you have a reference. I had to cut the pic in two to make it readable for you.

First, we need to determine if the fusible link is good. Pic 3 shows the location. Make sure power is present both to and from the link.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-a-car-fuse

Next, if you haven't already, see if it will start in neutral. If there is no change, I need you to check the starter relay in the under-hood fuse box. See pic 4 for the location

If there is a different relay in the box having the same part number, switch them to see if it makes a difference. If there isn't, here is a link that explains how to test a relay:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-an-electrical-relay-and-wiring-control-circuit

Let me know what you find or if you have other questions.

Take care,

Joe

See pics below.

Thank you for your reply. I tried starting in Neutral, but it didn't crank nor start.
I decided to check the ignition switch in fuse box no 2 (see attached picture). The fuse was part of three enclosed in a plastic and glass box. There are no terminals on top for me to do a continuity check. I tried to take it out to check the terminals on the other side. However, it was very tight. I have used a needle nose plier to try and remove it to no avail. Do you know of any easier way to remove this fuse without breaking it?

It should pull out. Try to wiggle it back and forth while pulling upward. It may be corroded in place.

Let me know.

Joe

I was able to remove the fusible fuse M and check for continuity. That showed that it's fine and there is continuity.
I then proceeded to check the starter relay. I am now having a problem pulling it out to retrieve the relays. I tried to use the tab close to by pushing it out to see if that will release fuse block to pull out so I can pull out the relay, but it's not pulling out. See pictures. The fuse block wouldn't come out. It seems to be blocked by the coolant reservoir. Even after pressing the right tab for example, that side would only come up a bit, not enough. What could I be doing wrong? What should I do?

Hi,

I'm not sure why it won't come out. If the reservoir is holding it in, I believe there is only one bolt that holds it in place. You may need to remove it or move it out of the way.

I attached the directions for the IPDM removal below. Take a look through them and let me know if it helps. Also, can you access the relay without removing the IPDM box?

Let me know.

Take care,

Joe

See pics below.

I have now been able to test the starter relay and ignition relay in the IPDMER. They both passed the test. I heard a click when I applied power from the battery to the primary circuit and there was continuity in the secondary circuit (using a voltmeter in continuity mode) while the the primary circuit was powered. While there, I also tested the Fuel pump relay, the throttle control motor relay and the ECM relay, they all passed.

In order to pull the IPDM out, I had to remove the coolant reservoir. It was when I tried to do this that I noticed the coolant reservoir was almost empty. I then opened the radiator cap and found out that coolant was away from the neck of the radiator cap. I suspected that maybe this is what caused the car not to start. However, I decided to test the relays first before proceeding. The results of the tests have been outlined in the previous paragraph. I then proceeded to fill the radiator to just below the top with coolant and also filled the reservoir with coolant to somewhere between Min and Max.

After all this, I tried to start the car. It did not start. All I could hear was a click, immediately followed by a woosh sound like a fan or something trying to start but it quickly stopped in about a second or less.

Can you tell me what to do next?

One more thing in putting the radiator cap back, I'm not sure if I got it back to its final position. You can see it. below. I tried to tighten it more clockwise so it lines up with the entry tube, but I couldn't go farther than shown. I have a feeling there may be a way o tighten it further.

I reported in my previous posting that I had a problem removing the IPDM cap. That problem went away once I removed the coolant reservoir.

Thank you in advance for the great advice you are giving me on this site.

Hi,

After reading your reply, I have a feeling the starter has failed. You hear a click and a whooshing sound, correct? If so, it sounds like the starter motor is spinning, but the Bendix isn't engaging the starter gear. If I could hear it, I would be able to tell. I suspect the whooshing sound is the motor slowing back down.

Let me know if you can record it and upload it for me to hear. That would be very helpful.

Let me know.

Take care,

Joe

Thank you. Here are two recordings. In the first one my phone was inside the car. So, the whole recording is about clicks etc. The second sound was recorded with my phone outside the car. Therefore, the first 10 seconds was taking with me leaving the phone outside and the slamming the door shut. The clicks after 0:10. It then goes to about 0:32 when I get out of the car and shut the door.

I have mp4 files for the sound. For some reason, I am unable to upload them.

I tried to upload them as .mp3 or .wma or .wav files. I get a reply that these file types are not allowed. However, when I send mp4 files, it goes into an endless loop and never stops the uploading process even after trying to upload a 142kb file for 50 minutes. I also tried using edge browser instead of Chrome. It didn't work. Is there some email address I can send them to?

Hi,

Record it with your phone as a video. That will upload for you.

Let me know.

Joe

Here is the sound recorded as video.

Hi,

If you try to jump-start it, what happens? It sounds like a very weak battery.

Let me know.

Joe

I tried to jump-start it, but the car did not start. No crank just like before. I measured the voltage on the car at the beginning of jump-start, it was 14.4 V; after about 5 minutes the voltage on the car had dropped to 13.8V. It was after these five minutes that I tried to start the car. Thank you.

I took the battery out and took it to the store for testing. It was only 3 months old. The test showed it was bad and needed replacing. They replaced it for free since it's still under warranty. I will be installing it and see what happens. I'm surprised that it was still holding a full charge (12.6V) but it tested bad. I'll report back.

The guy at the shop told me that a dying alternator or starter can damage a battery. Now I am wondering if I should try and run my car with the new battery. Should I?

Hi,

He is correct, but it isn't something that happens very often. I would install the new one and see if it works. If it starts, we can check the alternator to see if there is an issue. The starter is more of a challenge. You will likely have to take it to the parts store for testing.

As far as the other battery, it could have had an internal short that wouldn't show up until it was under a load.

Let me know what you find

Joe

I connected the new battery. Then I tried to start the car but nothing happened just like before.

It's a bit tedious to get the starter out. I will do it soon but before getting it out, I am thinking of testing the starter in place by disconnecting the harnesses that connect to the solenoid. Then, I will use clamps from the new battery that's sitting outside the hood to connect directly to the solenoid and then use another clamp to go to the S terminal and see if I get any action from the starter. I just want to make sure that this will isolate the starter and not affect any other electrical parts in the car. Or do I have to take the starter out before testing it? I do not have access to the starter if the battery is in the right place. Thank you.

If you are able to access the starter, have a helper turn the key to the start position while you check for power at the black wire with a white tracer. That wire should have 12v with the key in the start position. This way you won't have to remove the starter.

Also, the heavier gauge wire should have B+ at all times, so confirm that as well.

Let me know.

Joe

Thank you for your advice. I connected the battery and measured the voltage on the terminal with the heavier gauge wire. It was 12.5V. Then, I had a helper turn the ignition to start. The car did not start. Then I had the voltmeter connected to the smaller harness. When the helper turned the ignition to Start, there was a momentary 10.1V seen but it then quickly went to zero before the ignition was shut off. I also bridged the large and small harness connections with a screwdriver while the ignition was turned to start. There was a click, but the car did not start. I will be removing the starter, test it off the car, and replacing it with a new one. Thank you.

Hi,

If you have a momentary 10.1v at the smaller wire, the circuit is working but losing power. By chance, have you checked the connector on the starter motor? Also, the starter relay or a weak fuse connection can do this.

One other thought, if a battery terminal isn't tight or is corroded, this can happen.

On the other hand, the idea that you only got a click when you jumped the terminals on the starter is a concern. The starter should have engaged. If it clicked in but couldn't turn the engine, could there be a possible engine issue?

Let me know.

Joe

I thought that the fact that the starter did not work when I jumped the terminals on the starter solenoid and heard a click, but the starter did not crank and roll over is because the starter itself is bad. Is that correct?

Yes, that is the most likely issue. However, if power is lost due to a connection issue, you will likely hear a click and then nothing.

It's just a thought. It is easier to check than removing the starter to have it bench tested.

Let me know what you find or if you have other questions,

Take care,
Joe

I finally succeeded in removing the starter after trying many tools. I then bench tested the old starter.by applying 12V to the main terminal. I then use an alligator clip to apply 12V to the signal terminal. Nothing happened. No sound, no clicks. So, I figured the old starter was indeed bad.
I then took the new starter and performed the same test. In this case, I heard a click and the motor started turning and stayed turning smoothly until I removed the alligator clip.
I then installed the new starter. After that, I used jumper cables to connect the battery standing outside the car to the battery posts in the car. I measured the voltage at the main post of the solenoid, and it was 12.58V. I then had a helper start the car. It made a rapid starting sound as if the battery was bad. I also measured the voltage at the signal terminal when the ignition was turned on. It was only 2V. I don't know what is reducing the voltage at the S terminal. The sound made by the new starter when I tried to start the car is enclosed. I also tested the battery with a battery tested and it tested good. Also, the battery connectors are clean. Kindly advise on how to proceed.

Hi,

I agree. It sounds like a weak battery. When you used the jumper cables, do you mean the battery was outside the vehicle and you connected the jumper cables to the battery cables only? Also, the power to the S terminal comes from the starter relay. Have you double-checked the relay to make sure it's not causing the loss of power?

Let me know.

Joe

The battery was outside the car, but I used jumper cables to connect the battery to the post connectors on the car. So electrically, it was like the battery was in the car, but physically, there was nowhere for me to place the battery and at the same time expose the starter. By double check the relay, do you mean that I should check the starter relay works?

Hi,

Yes, to the relay question. On the other hand, if you placed jumper cables to the post connectors, you lost power because of the length of the cables. Is there any way you could connect it directly to the battery cables?

Joe

The problem is now solved. As you suggested, I took out the jumper cables and connected the battery directly to the connectors. After that the car started. Thank you very much for walking me through this long process. Overall, the faults were a bad battery and a bad starter. Once again, thank you.

Hi,

You are very welcome and thank you for the update. I'm glad it was an easy fix. Interestingly, most people don't realize that the longer the cable is, the more loss of power there is. I suspect that is what caused the issue for you.

No matter what it was, I'm glad to know it is fixed. If you have other questions in the future, please feel free to return. You are always welcome here.

Take care of yourself,

Joe