no crank no start

Just so we are clear, you have 3.4 volts on the blue and white wire at the starter?

If this is true then that is not enough to energize the solenoid in the starter to close the switch and supply 12 volts to the motor. What I would suggest is doing a voltage drop from the starter relay to the starter motor. You do this by putting your red meter lead at the terminal 41 of the relay with it installed and the other lead at the control wire on the starter. Then crank the engine. You may will most likely need to use jumper wires because I doubt your meter leads are long enough.

You should have minimal voltage on this wire. If you have significant voltage then you have high resistance in the wire that is "stealing" the voltage from the starter which is why you are only getting 3.4 volts there.

If you look there is an inline connector that I would inspect for water intrusion.

Another way to test this is just run a new wire directly from the relay to the starter control wire and see if the starter operates when you crank it. if it does then your wire is the issue.

Even if this is not the issue, the 3.4 volts is your problem so we just need to find where you are losing voltage.

Let me know what you find and we can go from there. Thanks

Awesome time response much appreciated, but the problem is the control I am getting 3.4 volts at the solenoid when ignition is in start position therefore not engaging solenoid. I am leaning toward plausible faulty ignition but want to be sure that I am not missing something along the way like PCM or vehicle immobilizer but there are no signs of that being the case.

George, I have pretty much exhausted all my options short of tearing dash apart and checking the ignition switch. I don't believe it is sending power to start circuit ECM is not supplying ground signal either. so I do believe it is ignition.

The starter relay circuit shows 3.4 volt on pin 1 and 1.4 volt on pin 2 I believe I am not at shop at moment I have a funeral to attend this AM but will clarify when I get back to shop. The relay should show 12 v on one and ground to the other if I am correct when ignition is in start position. There is no change on these readings in run or start they stay 3.4 and 1.7 no continuity to ground when trying to start and no voltage to opposite side of relay. I can start car with ignition on and power probe to start sol fires right up?

KaseKenny1, bud don't know if you are still getting my messages. I was wondering if you could possibly send a complete wiring diagram of start circuit? I appreciate what you have sent but the circuit is incomplete in both photos and I don't believe that they line up to show termination of all circuits do they?

I am getting them. I am sorry. I have been traveling all day and have not been in front of my computer to send the actual documents. I will have it up first thing in the morning here on East coast time and send the complete diagram. Sorry for the delay.

No worries my friend. I also am on east coast well west coast of Florida but I sure don't want to press anyone it's great that these sites exist. I have looked locally here for service manual and yeah that ain't happening without special order. I really don't have 3 days to wait for manual that more than likely is not going to tell me anything I don't already know other than wiring diagrams and I would imagine if I stayed on it that would not be an issue. It really amazes me the multitude of electrical issues that this particular model has. I mean from its inception the focus seems to be plagued by mysterious electrical problems that elude even the best of us as a fix for one vehicle more than likely is not going to be fix for another with same symptoms. Anyway as I said no rush don't stress it if you can get them to me early great if not I can wait you are doing me a huge favor and I thank you very much. now get some rest my friend and I will chat with you tomorrow.

Not a problem at all. I had to break the diagram down into 6 screen shots so you could see it and then I put the complete diagram in one page at the end. Let me know if you need more info and we can go from there.

I think I can say it is neutral safety circuit. I can't seem to find a schematic on it and have no idea what the resistance values should be. so I am going to pull a few homegrown tests and see if we can narrow it down to that I mean this circuit is ridiculous the amount of stuff it must go through to actuate a solenoid neutral safety switch. okay, I get that but why the PCM, BCM, TCM, MMM, lol. just kidding but seriously the audio control module really and the ground what is that did we sell every darn thing to China because that looks like some Hyundai kind of stuff there. no wonder they have problems with that awful transmission, no ground.

Haha. Yeah they run everything through multiple modules. Hopefully this doesn't complicate it. You don't have a traditional neutral safety switch. The TCM gets the park signal from the transmission range sensor. The TCM then sends the signal to the PCM.

Take a look at this info.

Okay, I'm going to try this reply a 3rd time my phone keeps erasing it if I move even slightly driving me nuts this morning anyway. No it definitely does not complicate things at all I was already checking into the range switch and yes I thought it would function as a neutral start switch but I don't see where it ties into the start circuit this may be my problem but as you can tell for some reason the ingenious minds at ford have found the most ridiculous placement for a control module that they could dream up!! The plastic cover for this was warped and open at top but not bottom and we have had several days of hard rain here as you can see when I pulled cover gravel and sand poured out I am going to go out on a limb and say that water was in box as well. I removed the cover from junction box and checked wiring there and only thing I came up with that was not functioning was return signal from PCM on circuit 33&34 at junction box so does the PCM have total control of power and ground on those two wires or does it rely on a signal from the range switch to allow power and ground to those circuits? I am trying to avoid pulling PCM apart but may be doing that real soon. So if the range switch has a part in allowing the signal from PCM is there any way you could send the schematic for this or literature which ever is easy for you? and let me say your help with this is invaluable and greatly appreciated.

You are correct the range switch is not a direct part of the starting system. The way that is tied in is through what you are railing against. It is a direct feed to the transmission control module. The TCM then sends a signal to the PCM. The PCM then takes this signal and makes sure the vehicle is in park or neutral when the key is turned. If it is then it allows the voltage to go to the starter and it powers the spark plugs and injectors at the same time.

However, if you are finding the PCM is the issue then I would suggest just replacing it and not take it apart. They are very sensitive and likely not repairable.

Too late already. disassembled and found a few burnt resistors but have found a way to bypass it for the moment until we can get new PCM. I certainly do appreciate your help with this I am at a loss with Ford decision to install such a delicate piece in front of tire just really dumbfounds me. Although after being in this business for 30 years I have seen a lot of things that those of us who turn wrenches find just ridiculous.

I should have known you were in the business. You sounded too much like a technician to not be one. Plus if that were the case, I would have agreed to take that thing apart and see what it looked like. Of course they put it in a place just to pick up all the rain and road salt.

Let us know if you need more info but it sounds like you are on top of it.

Yeah, I really appreciate your help with this and low and behold Ford has numerous recalls on this particular vehicle. I did what I needed to do got the car up and running took it for test drive did great until I pulled back into shop and nothing. transmission went dead, so I turn off wait, crank back up it goes into gear. so I pull it into shop no reverse and that was a hit and miss so I checked the recall info a little closer and yep TCM is definitely a part of recall as well as a few other things including software updates to PCM for no start or stall conditions directly related to TCM. so she is at Ford getting recall work done. Hopefully if I have any other issues in the future I can talk with you again. thank you greatly.

Thanks for the update. That is great information. I agree, hopefully the recalls take care of this. If not, we will need to get another post started if you need help on the transmission issue. We have to keep each post limited to one topic just so that others can find the answer to each issue you work through. So they won't find the answer to your transmission issue under this heading.

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/new

Keep us posted on what happens. Thanks

After taking to the local dealership the TCM was indeed the issue! There are multiple recalls on this particular model so I strongly urge anyone who owns one of these to take to your dealer asap. The extended warranty program is only good until Sep 2020 and 120,000 miles if I remember correctly. No cost to consumer if within this time frame there are updates to software that need to be done to PCM, TCM my customers vehicle had to have TCM replaced. As well as software updates to PCM to correct the problem which started out a no crank no start and ended up with no reverse and a transmission fault and this particular trans is known to just kick out of gear driving at any given time which can be extremely dangerous so please take to dealer and have updates done

Good information.

thank you for sharing this.

Roy

You're very welcome. I have a new one for you but can't seem to get to the new question area.

Hi TERRY SCHENK,

So sorry you are having a problem accessing the new question area. Here is the link to post a new question:

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Renee
Admin

Thank you Renee I finally got it.
Love this service especially for guys like myself who just can't afford to subscribe to the major chains but love working on cars and always willing to learn. Keep up the fabulous work don't know what I would do without y'all and the fantastic work and abundant knowledge found here! Thanks again so much.

Thanks Terry. We appreciate the kind words. We will be here when you need us. Thanks again. Talk to you next time.

There is my buddy. hey KaseKenny, I am glad to hear from you if you have time I have another issue if you could send me a new thread would love to go over it with you.

No problem. Glad to hear from you. We just need to get a new post started and I will look into it.

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/new