Rough idle, bogs down sometimes at stops?

1993 NISSAN SENTRA
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RISH57
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Car has been acting very randomly with the same problem going in and out with increased frequencies.

Noticed first that I would be driving around and suddenly the car would bog down. Sometimes at stops, sometimes while driving, then would kick in all the sudden and be fine.

My first thought was:
1. Spark 2. Fuel 3. Air

I first went the cheap root and replaced the spark plugs and air filter, they needed to be changed and new it should be done anyway. Ran better for about three days then back to the same issue.

I next thought fuel since it was stuttering in and out and very apparent under acceleration. Since this car did not have a fuel pressure fitting on the rail (blarg), and I had spent many days trying to find a fitting, I gave up and replaced the fuel filter first, not better. Got mad, replaced the fuel pump. It ran better, but did not solve the problem.

I rechecked the spark on the car and it was okay, went ahead and re-gaped the spark plugs, replaced the distributor cap and rotor and it seemed to idle better, especially after adjusting the throttle cables, but still was bad under acceleration and bumpy idle.

I was then thinking catalytic converter. I drilled four holes in the converter to see if that would help but it really did not. Plugged the holes with some liquid steel and back to the drawing board, yes I plan on replacing it soon, granted I can get it running right.

I was fed up. Went to the junk yard and found a fuel pressure relay and tried switching it out, no better.

Fed up more, I took it into the dealership to have diagnostics ran on it. They told me it was fuel injector #2 and wanted $350.00 to replace it.

I got online, ordered genuine fuel injectors and went ahead and replaced all four of them this weekend. After adjusting the throttle cable back down to normal, the car was running great like it was before.

I drove the car somewhat aggressively to a friends house, stopped the car once after driving twenty miles, drove another ten miles after that and all was good. After the car sat for about two hours, came out, started the car, and it was idling rough again and doing some weird stuff again. Only this time it would actually accelerate fine when pedal depressed pretty far down but still not running right.

I am not sure what to do now, the only thing left on the fuel side is the fuel pressure regulator, which is like $140.00 from the dealer, and like $95.00 online. I am not sure what to do next. It almost makes me feel like the actual ECU is bad or something. If it was anything else major, I would imagine that the codes ran at the factory would have told them something else they would have mentioned to me, like O2 sensor, etc., etc.

I imagine after it setting two hours in cold rainy weather it had plenty of time to cool down if it was heat problem, and if was just cold, that it would have gone away the thirty miles I had to drive home. Help!
Oct 22, 2007 at 1:28 AM
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RASMATAZ
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I would say it is the ECU that is bad because I have seen this problem before I would try a used one. Here is the location.

Check out the diagrams (below). Please let us know what happens.

Cheers
Oct 22, 2007 at 5:00 AM
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RISH57
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Okay, so today I did the following:

1. Took off and cleaned the Idle Air Adjusting unit.
2. Checked the EGR valve.
3. Checked vacuum hoses mostly around the EGR side of things.
4. Checked the heated MAFS wires.

The IAAU was dirty, and I got quite a bit of gunk out of it using carburetor cleaner, but it was not ridiculously dirty. Reinstalled it, cleaning all the connectors with connection cleaner and applied dielectric grease to the fittings.

I also took off the air intake syetem and cleaned it all out while checking the EGR valve. I manually was able to push the EGR diaphragm up and down with no binding multiple times. There seemed to be another EGR looking valve posterior to the EGR valve. I have no idea what it was. Thought it was the EGR at first, but just looked like it.

I took off the intake system, thoroughly cleaned the intake hoses and checked for perforations in anything in the area and found nothing besides 175,000 hoses that all seemed to be intact. I saw two wires in the MAF, one small and one big, both of them were intact.

I tried like mad to find a fitting months ago that would accept my current fuel pressure gauge put there is some sort of proprietary threading that sent me from hardware store to store and even a plumbing and air conditioning specialty store that did not have a thread that matched the one I had. That is what made me just replace the fuel pump and filter rather than spend hours driving around looking for stuff that did not work.

I had at some point a repair manual, but it is in a POD storage unit so I am kind of flying by the seat of my pants here. I have an OHM meter, but quite frankly, I have never really understood how to use it.

So far after doing that stuff this afternoon it seems to run better once again like all the other stuff I have done but not quite there. Rather then getting all excited, I will have to see the next few days how it acts and such to say for sure.

One thing that is odd, is that ever since I installed the new fuel injectors the car has a hard time starting. Before, even with the rough surging and idling, the car started easy. Now it turns for about five to eight seconds and I have to depress the gas pedal a bit to get it to start, then it runs okay.

Also, I do not know where the "vacuum timing control solenoid" is.

And, how does running the car with and without vacuum check the fuel pressure regulator?
Oct 22, 2007 at 11:32 PM
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RASMATAZ
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And, how does running the car with and without vacuum check the fuel pressure regulator? You cannot without the pressure gauge-this is where you remove the vacuum hose from the regulator the pressure should increase to about 8-10psi. Then vacuum hose connected it will go back to modulated which will be less and within specs.

To check for a back pressure in the exhaust system remove the oxygen sensor hook-up a pressure gauge and read off it should be 2lbs or less anything over you will be looking at the cat again.
Oct 22, 2007 at 11:53 PM
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RISH57
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Car is still running pretty solid after the cleaning of the Idle Air adjusting unit, so far.

However, my car still has a hard time starting ever since I replaced the fuel injectors. So question: would the computer have stored some sort of different fuel curve and so forth since the car was dogging for so long? And if so, would that entail me turning that knob on the back of the ECU?

Once the car starts it runs fine before I installed the new injectors it did not take so long to start the car. I have also noticed this is only after it sets for a while. If it has been running for a while, I turn it off and restart it, it start up normal.

Yes, I plan on just cutting off the schrader valve attachment dohickie and putting in a T-fitting to test some stuff in the next few days.

After replacing the fuel pump, filter, and the fuel injectors, I almost feel obligated to change the fuel pressure regulator. I guess I will figure that out after I test the fuel pressure.
Oct 23, 2007 at 11:20 PM
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RISH57
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And again, where is the vacuum control solenoid? What does it do?
Oct 23, 2007 at 11:22 PM
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RASMATAZ
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The valve timing control solenoid is part of the valve timing control system its purpose is to provide optimum valve timing. It is located at.


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/12900_valve_timing_control_solenoid_sentra_94_1.jpg

Oct 24, 2007 at 12:24 AM
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RISH57
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Okay, yes I replaced that when I did a tuneup, however, I noticed a similar solenoid on the posterior aspect of the air plenum on the same side (passenger) of the car.
Oct 24, 2007 at 1:36 PM
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MKAROC
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Good news and bad news: Bad news I just went through the same problem; have had intermittent problem that comes and goes; Good news - you just saved me from doing a lot of stuff that does not fix the problem.

Diagnosis was one fuel injector was clogged; fuel pump was checked and okay; Had chain shop replace all injectors, clean fuel injection system, replace fuel filter. Exact same scenario after repairs: rough start, drove home okay; hard to start the next day; problem came back; took back to shop; one of the new injectors was stuck completely open, gummed up with fuel crap; shop took fuel sample, which was much darker than expected; they drained tank and put in new gas;shop said they/I have seen this problem (dirty fuel in tank) before. Just got car back today; was hard to start again, but once started runs okay. Fingers crossed.

Note: this was a problem at day one (1996) when bought used 1993 Sentra (70,000 miles). One day after purchase, could not start. Selling dealer replaced all fuel injectors which fixed problem. Also replace fuel pump at about 100,000 miles. The car has been intermittently hard to start over the years, especially when raining. Also has always run sluggish until gets up in RPM. Eleven years and 100,000 more miles later, the injector problem has come back. Hopefully, problem is fixed, and will not come back again.

I will post status after a few more days of operation.
Oct 25, 2007 at 9:06 PM
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RISH57
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My car has still been running okay this week, with still exception to the harder starting. And yes, once started, will easily start if started very soon after setting. I am awaiting to hear your results.

I remember specifically when I replaced the fuel pump that I looked around in the tank and it was very clean. When I get a chance I am going make a T-fitting to the end of my fuel pressure tester to see if my fuel pressure regulator is okay. At this point is the only thing that has not been replaced.
Oct 25, 2007 at 11:48 PM
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RASMATAZ
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Did you tee-in and got some readings with and without the pressure regulator? Let me know what it is.
Oct 26, 2007 at 9:03 PM
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RISH57
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Going to be doing that probably on Sunday, will report back.
Oct 27, 2007 at 1:01 PM
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RISH57
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So when I T-Bar in the fuel fitting, I basically need to just pull any vacuum fitting or is there one specifically I should be pulling to get my reading?

I am heading up to the hardware store now to get a fitting and do some readings, just not sure how exactly I am checking without the fuel pressure regulator.
Oct 29, 2007 at 1:15 PM
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RASMATAZ
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The fuel pressure regulator is attached to the fuel rail-you disconnect/reconnect vacuum hose. When the vacuum hose is connected it modulates the fuel pressure with out the hose and plugged it raises the pressure to about 8-10psi. Vacuum hose with fuel in it, the regulator is bad.
Oct 29, 2007 at 1:52 PM
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RISH57
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Okay.

So the fuel pressure with everything connected was 34-35 psi, when I took the vacuum hose from the fuel pressure regulator off it ran at 44psi.

So, that is normal or abnormal?
Oct 29, 2007 at 4:38 PM
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RISH57
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I should add that I have a catalytic converter on the way. I do not think it has ever been changed and I am at 175,000.
Oct 29, 2007 at 4:40 PM
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RASMATAZ
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Pressure looks good-track down an excessive back-pressure on the exhaust system-options remove oxygen sensor, slap on the pressure gauge and read off while at idle-nothing over 2psi. If so it is an indication of restriction catalytic converter perhaps. No gauge disconnect exhaust manifold tie it to the side and retest-did it improve?
Oct 29, 2007 at 7:00 PM
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RISH57
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I do not believe it I tried the ECU you said finally and I have been running the car it has never run better I think we got it! I will report back if it does it again wish me luck.

Oct 29, 2007 at 10:11 PM
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WILLIAMD00
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After repairing the cylinder head and put car back together car starts and idles but immediately shuts off when gas pedal is pressed.
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Welcome to 2CarPros.

Have you checked for vacuum leaks? Also, does it idle smoothly? Have you checked fuel pressure?

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-an-engine-vacuum-gauge

Next, I attached three pics of timing marks. Make sure they were where you set everything.

If possible, can you record what is happening so I can hear the engine idle and what happens when you hit the gas?

Let me know.

Joe

Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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WILLIAMD00
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Thanks Joe. Okay, here's a clip maybe you can shed some light end end my weeks long headache. also there's no check engine light on. Thanks again
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Welcome back:

Did you upload something? If so, it's didn't come through.

Joe
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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WILLIAMD00
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Okay, I'll try again having some phone issues.
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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XD40TAC
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I have a 1992 Nissan Sentra SER with 155k. While I was driving to work the other day I just lost most of the power from the engine. At idle, it is very choppy and almost sounds like a V.W. bug. Acceleration from a stop is very, very labored and choppy...almost like a cyl is not firing, but I have checked and they all are. I replaced plugs, distr. cap, rotor, and plug wires on the advise from the "local garage" to the tune of 100 bucks for a diagnostic that was completely wrong ( they were sure it was the plug wires). Any idea what else could be the issue?? Injectors, vacuum line?? I am stumped.
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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RASMATAZ
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Possible Causes of Engine Hesitation or Stumble:

Dirty fuel injectors (cleaning the injectors often fixes this).
Bad MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor
Bad TPS (throttle position) sensor
Bad or dirty MAF (mass airflow) sensor
Low fuel pressure (leaky fuel pressure regulator or weak fuel pump)
Vacuum leaks (intake manifold, vacuum hoses, throttle body, EGR valve)
Bad gasoline (fuel contaminated with water or too much alcohol)

Sometimes, what feels like a hesitation is actually ignition misfire rather than lean misfire. The causes of ignition misfire may include:

Dirty or worn spark plugs
Bad plug wires
Weak ignition coil
Wet plug wires
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Not a problem. I will watch for your reply.

Take care,
Joe
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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WILLIAMD00
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I think I got it this time. also the check engine light is not on. thanks again
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Welcome back:

It honestly sounds like I hear a knocking. Any smoke from the exhaust? Any coolant usage? What was done to the head? Also, are you certain you have the timing right?

If you could, let me know what was done to the head and if it was removed completely.

Joe
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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WILLIAMD00
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The previous one that I replaced blew a valve stem seal so I swapped it out.
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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ROCKON3DW
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Just recieved this 1990 Nissan Sentra and had the Alternator replaced. The car runs but it seems to take a lot of gas to accelerate very slowly. When in 5th gear the car has trouble reaching 55mph. Also when driving up a hill the car decelerates to about 35mph. I was wondering if you had any possible solutions.
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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KHLOW2008
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Hi rockon3dw,

If the engine runs well while revving only but cannot attain high speeds,

1. The fuel line might be clogged.

2. The exhaust system might be clogged too.
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Are you confident about the timing? Also, did you replace the variable valve timing control solenoid?

I attached two pics. the first shows the VTC solenoid location. The second shows how to check one. Here are the directions for testing:

__________________

1. Disconnect the solenoid connector.
2. Apply battery voltage to the terminals as shown.
3. The solenoid should make a clicking sound when voltage is applied and released.
4. Make sure that the plunger shaft protrudes.
Replace the solenoid if it fails the above test.

_______________

Let me know.

Joe
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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WILLIAMD00
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Thanks a lot. well the timing I want to say yes I feel confident, but I'm not certain maybe 98%. I did three times I believe and no I didn't replace the valve it failed. so I'm going to replace I'll let you know what happened.
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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STRAILER
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Lets do a compression test to see if we have all cylinders. Here is a guide:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-engine-compression

Please run down this guide and report back.
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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MEIGUAY
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Engine Performance problem
1990 Nissan Sentra 4 cyl Front Wheel Drive Automatic 150K miles

Dear sir,

My car engine runs well when it is on park, but hesitates when I put it on drive. It seems to have difficulty to accelerate, it sometime takes over 10 sec for the engine to be able to up the rpm and makes the car pick up on speed. Also at some of the time the engine just die there. I have changed the usual tune-up items: plugs, wires, dist rotor and cap. I have also changed the throttle position senor, and check the timing. But the lack of pick up problem is still there. Lately I have found during the driving, the engine oil dip stick pops up and cause the engine oil splashes all over the engine compartment. The engine also consume more fuel then before.
Could you give me some idea of how to pinpoint the problem.
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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ZACKMAN
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Do a compression test on all cylinders. Lack of power, especially on older vehicles, usually is associated with low compression, which generally leads to malfunctioning internal parts.
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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MEIGUAY
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Thanks so much for the reply. I have done the compression test for my Nissan. All 4 cylinders read 125 to 135 psi dry and 138 to 140 psi wet. I am going to replace the fuel filter and check the Oxygen sensor(if it is bad I am going to replace it too. It was started from a year ago that when I push for acceleratiing for a stop the engine would hesitated for a bit then catch up, but lately it takes longer time for the engine to catch up to build up speed to 45 mil/hr.
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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JACK WILSON2
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When I park on an incline I have to rev the engine and keep popping the clutch to make it to the top. The car has a new carburetor, plugs, battery and we added an electric fuel pump.
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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ASEMASTER6371
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Good morning,

Add an electric fuel pump? Why?

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/engine-has-low-power-output

Have you checked the compression in the cylinders?

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-engine-compression

I am concerned that the engine does not have much power. The exhaust could also be the issue. If it has a catalytic converter, it could be partially clogged not allowing the engine to breathe.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-a-catalytic-converter

Roy
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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JACK WILSON2
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The electric pump was because if I let the car sit for two days it would not start. I tried putting in a one way valve but it did not fix the problem. Hard to believe gas would evaporate in the bowl after two days and I felt no leaks so at least now it starts. Thanks for your advice. I was expecting the catalytic converter and the timing is also a good suggestion. I'll try them.
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM (Merged)
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ASEMASTER6371
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You are welcome.

Always glad to help.

Roy
Aug 28, 2020 at 9:51 AM (Merged)