Engine misses when hot

Hello. Are there any codes? If the engine light is on and you haven't received codes, get them. Otherwise, I would be inclined to think maybe a faulty Engine Coolant Temperature sensor. The computer uses the signal from that sensor to judge how to adjust the fuel/air ratio. A faulty sensor can really screw with how the car runs. If you have access to a scanner with love data mode, I'd want to see the readings from that sensor.

Aside from that, there could be an issue with the spark plugs and wires/coils. Sometimes, as they age, coils and plugs can work poorly when hot but decently when cold, or vice versa.

Here's our guide on checking the sparks:
https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-an-ignition-system

I'm also attaching information on how to remove and install the engine coolant temperature sensor. Use it if necessary. Let me know what you find

Thanks. Need to resolve an electrical issue I caused myself and then will get the codes. Appreciate the quick response. Russ.

Okay. Just let me know when you've got those codes pulled and we'll go from there.

Random miss fires, cylinder 2 and 3. The codes were P302 and P303. I will now check the spark as you outlined above. Thanks again for the support. Russ.

After driving to get the codes, I decided to check the compression again on 2 and 3. The engine was hot and missing. Both 2 and 3 were spitting antifreeze as I tested the other one. I think this is consistent with the white smoke while running hence probably a blown head gasket. I was hoping this was not the issue. Your thoughts? BTW, has loose head bolts caused this kind of problem? Was hoping for an easy way out, ha! Thanks again, Russ.

Hello. Yes, loose head bolts could cause that type of issue. But that's would be unusual unless the bolts weren't properly torqued to spec by the last mechanic to dig that deep into the engine. So unless you've already had a head gasket done, I'd doubt that possibility.

It's also possible that a blown intake manifold gasket could be the issue here. That would be considerably cheaper and easier than a head gasket replacement. Here's a guide on how to diagnose a head gasket issue.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/head-gasket-blown-test

It's a bit of a pain, but well worth the trouble. Run the test. Run it twice if you can. Then we'll know where to go from here.

Will run the leak test and see if there are exhaust fumes in my coolant. Thanks, Russ.

BTW, the article that you referred to for testing says about $35.00 on Amazon and that just tests for exhaust gases in the coolant. It does not cover coolant in your oil or coolant in your combustion chamber. However, I do not see coolant indications on the oil dip stick and I definitely see white smoke in the exhaust and can smell the coolant, plus the spiting in 2 and 3, of course. I will test for exhaust gases in my coolant. Thanks again, Russ.

Coolant in the oil and/combustion chamber can be caused by blown intake manifold gaskets as well. That's why this test checks for exhaust gases in the coolant. It is a surefire indication of a blown head gasket and not a blown lower intake manifold gasket. That's why I suggested that test.

I have combustion gases in my coolant. I tested it twice to confirm. So head gasket. Will be my first. any recommendations? Thanks again for all your help and quick responses, Russ.

While I've not done the job on that car, what I generally always suggest is that once you have everything apart, take the head to a machine shop and have it resurfaced. This way, if it's slightly warped, that'll be addressed too. And it could've gotten warped enough to cause problems but not really be easily visible to the naked eye. It doesn't take much. If you don't know where to go, call your local Joe Schmoes mechanic shop and ask them where to take it. I'm sure one of them will tell you where to go. It'll cost $50.00 to $100.00 and could save you from having to do the whole job again. I'm attaching instructions on how to remove the head to this reply. The instructions are a little simplistic, so read through them and let me know what steps you may need clarified and I'll clarify. I'll attach reinstallation instructions in the next reply.

And the reinstallation instructions. Again, read them and let me know what to clarify.

Thanks again, will give it a go. Russ

Hi,

I noticed we haven't heard from you for a couple of days. Has any progress been made? We're interested in knowing.

Take care,

Joe

Just took a break. Will start the project today. Use to go deep on old style engines when I was young but this will be much different and an interesting challenge for a retired engineer.

Sounds like you've probably got a handle on it.

Hardly, this is a replacement engine and the first thing I see is that the timing chain gold links that are close together do not line up with the cam marks. So, the engine is timed but not using the gold chain links?

Hi,

The timing marks on the chain likely would align in the correct place if you turned the engine over enough times. What you described really sounds normal.

If possible, send us a pic of what you see. Hopefully, one of us will be able to advise you.

Take care,

Joe

Rookie observation, will turn over the engine to confirm. Thanks.

LOL, no problem whatsoever. Honestly, it could take several rotations until they match correctly. The gears are different sizes. Thus, they turn at different speeds.

Let me know.

Joe

Okay, was able to remove the head without taking off the timing chain cover. Made some space with loose bolts and was able to get the one stupid chain guide bolt out but left in place. Head was quite warped in the center which matches the 2 and 3 missing problem. Head is back on somewhat, was able to get the guide bolt back in. Waiting for some head bolt washers as I misplaced 2 (more rookie stuff). I did tie the timing chain up to hopefully keep it in place and I sealed the timing chain cover where it separated. So if the timing links up above match the picture I took before removing the cams and I do not have an oil leak, I will be the luckiest rookie alive. Russ.

Russ,

Make sure the timing is correct. I don't believe any Toyota 4 cylinder engine is an interference engine. However, turn the engine by hand when you have the chain on it. Make sure the crank makes several full revolutions. If you feel anything binding (and I don't think you will) do not force it.

I attached the directions for the total replacement of the chains. They show how everything aligns. I'm adding these so you have them in the event they are needed.

Starting with pic 30, the directions for head replacement are included. These directions include the torque specs and tightening sequence when torquing the cylinder head. Make sure to follow both.

Let me know how you make out of if you need help.

Take care,

Joe

See pics below.

Joe, I did continue to rotate the engine until the links lined up properly with the cam marks. Piston 1 is up and both cam knobs, intake and exhaust, should be pointing out horizontally when I put the cams back in. I was planning on manually rotating the engine several revolutions just to make sure there was no issues. Thanks for all the detail above. Hope I do not have to take the timing cover off. Russ.

Russ,

No problem. I wanted to add the directions in the event you needed them. If you have a chance, let me know how things turn out for you or if I can be of any help.

Take care and have a good weekend.

Joe

Joe, timing chain remained in the same position as when I took it off. Manually turned over the engine, no problems. Have a few other items before I can give it a try. Will let you know. Thanks and have a great weekend. Russ.

Success, so far. The engine idles nicely when warm, no white exhaust smoke. Not driven yet so well not know about an oil leak until I put some miles on it but very happy with the result so far. Have a battery light and the alternator is only putting out 13.45, so that is most likely the problem and need to reset the engine light or chase another problem. Cars, just love them. Russ.

Russ, the 13.45 with the engine running and loaded is good as far as alt output. Are you checking it at the battery? Even if the electrical system isn't fully loaded, that is still a good voltage. Make sure nothing around the alt has been damaged or left unplugged.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-a-car-alternator

Regardless, I'm glad to hear it's running. And I couldn't agree more. Cars can cause a lot of headaches. LOL

Take care and let me know how things turn out for you.

Joe

Joe, the 13.45 was not loaded. The battery tested okay. Changed out the alternator and the battery light went out right away. BTW, had read somewhere on the net that the unloaded voltage should be 14V or above. I am not sure where the trip voltage is for a 2009 Camry but there is probably a spec someplace that states that voltage in the control unit docs. I will measure the voltage of the remanufactured alternator and let you know. Just curious myself. Very much appreciate your support and very much enjoy the dialogue. Thanks, Russ.

Russ,

You are very welcome. I really did nothing. You did the work. As far as the alternator, I'm glad the new one turned off the light.

The voltage of the old one was within the manufacturer's specifications. However, that doesn't mean something wasn't wrong internally causing the light issue.

If you look at the attached pic, it shows the unloaded voltage range.

Take good care of yourself, and please feel free to come back anytime in the future. You're always welcome here.

Joe

Joe, given that spec., I am surprised the light was on. The old alternator was on the very low end of the range and I guess the control unit sensing may not be exactly 13.2V. Anyway, just a thought. It is my Son's car and he is driving it. He was over last night and came in for just a moment that turned into 15 minutes while the car was idling. Seemed that the engine was quite warm and one fan was kicking on intermittently. The dash temperature gauge was a little less than half towards hot. I do not want an overheat due to a faulty sensor but not sure I should be alarmed. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks, Russ.

Hi,

I wouldn't be too concerned as long as the fan was coming on and the temp never reached hot. Honestly, with the fan off and the car sitting, there is no air circulation through the radiator, that's why it will increase the temp and turn on the fan. Tell him to pay attention to the temp gauge to make sure nothing else happens.

Take care,

Joe

Joe, long time no talk. Ha! So, the 2009 Camry is losing antifreeze and when my son dropped it off so I could take a look there was antifreeze along the passengers side front and down the timing chain cover of the engine. I am happy to say it is not the timing chain cover leaking. It sure looks like it could have come from the water pump but the pump is not making noise and when I try to move the pump sprocket with a crow bar there is no movement. Although, I did leave the serpentine belt on. I will take the belt off and try again. Oh, the fan is kicking on pretty regularly even when driving on a fairly low temperature day. I will wait on replacing the water pump until I hear from you. As always, really appreciate and value your input. Thanks, Russ.

Russ,

There is a weep hole on the water pump that will leak when it starts to fail. Take a look through this link. The second pic in the link shows what I am talking about.

Let me know if that is where it is leaking.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/symptoms-of-a-bad-water-pump

Joe

Joe, knew about the weep hole. Apparently, my son spilled some antifreeze and maybe that was what I was seeing. However, there is still a loss of antifreeze somewhere and I cannot figure it out. Anyway, I do not think it is the water pump.
Thanks again for the quick response and help. Russ.

Hi Russ, you are very welcome.

Listen, try pressure testing the system. If there is a leak, it may show up. Here is a link showing how it's done:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/radiator-pressure-test

Most parts stores will lend you the pressure tester. Also, do the basics. Is there any evidence of coolant mixing with the oil? Is there any white smoke from the exhaust?

Let me know what I can do to help.

Take care,

Joe

Joe, no coolant in the oil. No white smoke or smell of coolant in the exhaust. Have tested the coolant for CO2, negative. The pressure test is a great idea. Knew of it but did not think of it.. Will let you know the outcome. Thanks! Russ.

You are very welcome. Let me know what you find or if you have other questions.

Take care,

Joe