Injector pulse problems?

2002 CHEVROLET TRUCK
140,000 MILES • 8.1L • V8 • 4WD • AUTOMATIC
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BRENT CATALENA
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What sensors and functions does the PCM use to supply injector pulse to the injectors? What would cause the computer to stop sending an injector pulse 3 to 4 seconds after the engine starts?
Jul 15, 2019 at 6:49 AM
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KASEKENNY
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Hi Brent,

The PCM uses various sensors to determine how much fuel is needed. There is no way to measure fuel volume from the injector so it measures pulse width, or how long it opens the injector for based on a spec that the injector can spray X amount of fuel in X time. It looks at the MAF/MAP to determine how much air is coming in, RPM, throttle input, Baro, ambient temp and uses this info to determine how much fuel to add in order to maintain 14:7 air/fuel ratio. This guide can help us

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-a-fuel-injector

It then looks at o2 sensor data to determine how it is doing with the calculation and adjusts pulse width to lean out or fatten the ratio.

Just so I understand the engine starts and then 3-4 seconds later it cuts off the injectors? Does the engine stall? Just looking for a little more detail as to what the issue is. Thanks
Jul 15, 2019 at 4:44 PM
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BRENT CATALENA
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Yes, the engine just shuts off, but it will start right back up and then shuts off again in 3 or 4 seconds.
Jul 16, 2019 at 4:05 AM
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KASEKENNY
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Okay and you have a scan tool and monitored the injector pulse width shutting off and then it stalls? I just want to make sure we are going down the right path but if you are assuming that is why it is shutting off then it could just be stalling and the injectors are shutting off as a result of the crank not sensing the engine RPM any longer so it shuts off the injectors.
Jul 16, 2019 at 1:19 PM
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TGLASS720
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I was just wondering what is the best injector cleaner on the market. I've heard that sea foam was a good choice. Also what is the best way to clean cloged injecters.
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:36 AM (Merged)
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MASTERTECHTIM
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the best way to clean these injectors is by using high pressure injector cleaner through the fuel rail. i dont know of an inexpensive way to do this. to do it right it will cost you about 100 bucks. it takes almost an hour to do. they have updated the injectors with a different style due to the problem of the original ones clogging with carbon.
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:36 AM (Merged)
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BMRFIXIT
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[quote:b4d7590b91="tglass720"]Other Category problem
1998 Chevy Truck V8 Four Wheel Drive Automatic 120000 miles
----------------------------------------------------------------
I was just wondering what is the best injector cleaner on the market. I've heard that sea foam was a good choice. Also what is the best way to clean cloged injecters.[/quote:b4d7590b91]
All will work but they will have to be as an additive in your tank
and your asking for the best way to do it
so you have to fuel injection cleaner throw stopping the fuel pump and running the cleaner only and that’s require special equipment
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:36 AM (Merged)
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BLAISE1986
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1996 Chevy K1500 350 Vortec 4x4
I think there is something wrong with the spider fuel injector. The truck starts but as soon as it does it revs up to about 2500-3000 rpm and then back down, then cuts off. The injector moves up and down when i press the gas. It goes down so far that the clips on plug that sits on top are busted up and only one clip works. Both sides don't go down the same amount. One side goes as far as it can, and the other only half way. The one that only moves half way moves up and down. The other doesn't. It only moves down and then stay there. When someone presses the intake down and holds it there it starts and stays running. It idles above 2000 rpm though.
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:37 AM (Merged)
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RASMATAZ
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The injectors should stay in place when you throttle it-not moving up and down-best inspect what's going on-could be O-rings. Also pressing down on the intake makes it starts and idles-could be a vacuum leak due to the manifold is not sealed properly causing the high idle-
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:37 AM (Merged)
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BERK
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I have no power to the injectors (test light dosn't light). I replaced the pick up coil, had the igntion module checked, and then replaced the ecu. The only things I haven't replaced is the personality chip in the ecu and the harnes. The fuses were good when I started. End to end wire check is the only thing I can thik of. I hope you might have some ideas I am running dry.
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:37 AM (Merged)
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KHLOW2008
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Hi berk,

Thank you for the donation.

The injectors gets it power source from the ignition and through a fuse. If there is no power supply, it is either a blown fuse or open circuit in wiring.

Can you please provide me with the following.
1. Engine type and capacity.
2. Actual model name and code if any.

There are many variants and they uses different systems and circuits so I need the above to gather the required information and advise accordingly.
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:37 AM (Merged)
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BERK
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morning KHLow

Sorry I have 11.??? somthig going to the injectors just not getting the gnd or control from the pcm.

The truck is a k2500, 5.7l v8, vin #1gcgk24k5re182469.It has the heavy duty manuel transmission. It isn't a silverado and never seen a model designation just thougt it was the work truck model.

I will recheck the fuse and the voltage I could have lost it over the last 2 weeks of digging in there.
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:37 AM (Merged)
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BERK
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hi
well I checked the voltage again I have battery voltage at the injectors, with the key on. I found my meter was bad giving me incorrect ohm readings. Both injectors are shorted and I think I may have lost my new pcm.
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:37 AM (Merged)
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CHEVYGUY72
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When at idol injector b goes on and off while injector a stays working properly . It also does this going down the highway. thanks for any help!
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:37 AM (Merged)
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JDL
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Hi, if you suspect a faulty injector, swap places with injectors, if the problem follows the injector, maybe a faulty injector. If problem stays where it was, you need to do some testing on wiring circuit. Are there any trouble-codes?
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:37 AM (Merged)
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MX12BRAD
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Engine Mechanical problem
1990 Chevy Truck 305 V8 Two Wheel Drive Automatic fuel injection throttle body

My Question is how can I get Fuel to spary out of my injectors? is there a injector module?
I have used a Noid tester on my truck to no avail the light did not blink so i then tried to replace the computer with a new one....still nothing .Prior to all this I have put new fuel pump, fuel filter, cap & rotor, plug wires, idle position sensor, had both injectors cleaned they said one was 100% other was 97% so they are good.

Thank you.

Brad Leyden
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:38 AM (Merged)
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RASMATAZ
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Check and test injector A fuse.
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:38 AM (Merged)
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MX12BRAD
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I checked under the dash......Fuses in fuse box all seem to be fine. Is there another fuse location?
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:38 AM (Merged)
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RASMATAZ
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The fuel injector A fuse is the 10amp in the fuse block-if okay could be open from the fuse to the injector wires
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:38 AM (Merged)
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MX12BRAD
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it was the distributor module
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:38 AM (Merged)
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COOLCATPAT
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Why would the throttle body spray too much fuel ?
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:38 AM (Merged)
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DR LOOT
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Hello this happens when one of the injectors of the two short out causing the injector driver to go full on. Test the injectors with this guide.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-a-fuel-injector

If they test okay you need a new PCM.
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:38 AM (Merged)
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R MCELHANEY
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I needed a new PCM FYI
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:38 AM (Merged)
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BRADSURFING
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V8 two wheel drive automatic 165,000 miles. I have been having trouble with a friend's vehicle he needs for work. It had a bad fuel pump, so dropped the tank and replaced it thinking it would fix the no fuel problem. Getting proper fuel pressure at the TBi assembly. Motor fires over with starter fluid. Heard on this site http://www.chevroletforum.com/m_13174/mpage_2/tm.htm#63237 about changing the ignition module/pickup coil in the distributor to get the ECM to ground the fuel injector circuit. changed out for a JY distributor assembly. Still no go. Checked for voltage at injectors, twelve volts, and at the ECM's power out for them (A6 pin) twelve volts, and D14 and D16 I get twelve volts, so wiring is fine. After this in the circuit the computer grounds out the circuit, making it closed briefly and the fuel injectors fire. Are there any other sensors/modules, when bad, will keep the ECM from grounding out the fuel injector circuit(s)? I have not checked them with a noid light but pretty certain there is not a circuit complete due to a bad sensor Attached wiring diagram schematic: Also, check the thread on page 2, I posted more information about the ignition module voltage at ignition on position, there was basically no voltage coming back to the ECM, but power in from the ignition coil to the module. Possible bad JY distributor? Any help appreciated, thanks!


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/173092_0900823d80087955_1.jpg

Feb 12, 2021 at 11:38 AM (Merged)
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BMRFIXIT
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It sounds like it could be one of a couple things. the first things I would check would be the oil level because if the oil pressure is down it will cut off the ignition saving the engine. Next there are a couple of fuses that are in the system as well and finally the ECM is bad causing the problem. Here are some wiring diagrams and a guide to help you see how the system works and a guide to help you run some simple tests. Make sure the computer is getting power and ground.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-test-light-circuit-tester

and

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-a-car-fuse

Check out the diagrams (below) The ECM you can plug and play. By the way get a used one.

Please run this test and get back to us.

Cheers
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:38 AM (Merged)
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BRADSURFING
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All fuses are fine (inj a + b, etc) and the ECU when tested gives twelve codes repeatedly when I jump the aldl connector.
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:38 AM (Merged)
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BMRFIXIT
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disconnect the TPS and check if you do not have a way to test the volts
that will put the ECM in a limp mode.
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:38 AM (Merged)
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BRADSURFING
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flood mode voltage would be five volts meaning maxed on that circuit meaning the TPS is not doing the proper resistance potentiometer it should be? or do I have it backwards (maybe cause I work on Fords). Here is a better diagram the other one i attached through the site did not show up right:

so C13 blue wire should be power to tps, five volts , and the black wire should be the changed voltage so at closed throttle it would be about one volt back once it goes through the coolant temperature sensor that alters a bit too?

How does this go, thanks for any help here and for the help you have shown, it sound's like a possible bad TPS.

I have tried to put it in limp mode before by disconnecting the TPS plug on the other side of the TBi opposite of the linkage and still no fire from injectors, but I think I had disconnected the MAP sensor at the same time but I do not think it should have had bearing on the injectors spraying.

Maybe I need to check the ignition module once more.
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:38 AM (Merged)
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BMRFIXIT
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If you can use a scan tool it will be a plus TPS at the throttle body flood mode will not allow injector to open unplug the injector and check it for pulse.
i have seen it where the metal round that the air cleaner sits on cuts the injector wires you may wants to check that too.
if wire good and TPS
far to do it but check the coolant sensor too.
if all okay you may be dealing with a bad ECM .


(Flood five volts yes or over three)
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:38 AM (Merged)
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BRADSURFING
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Thanks for all the help. just got back to it since i have been off-on this for a friend.

checked TPS voltage at the ECU pins and at idle it is a round five volts and it goes up to 4.5 or 4.8. i cannot remember when i pushed on the throttle pedal so i know TPS is good.

swapped the ECU's and did not do it, possibly wrong ECU.
Going to get the old ECU re-flashed either tonight or tomorrow night (no charge, good to know old employees. :)

i did test the old ignition module and it had a bad reference signal (the last test on the diagnostic machine).
tested the newer one and it passed all tests.

also, checked the ohms for the pickup coil and it is where it should be (800-1300 ohms not magnified).

spin the shaft on the distributor manually, set to volt AC and it is where it should be (.2 to .7 volt ac).

so the new distributor setup is good and not causing the ECU to cutout the grounding part of the fuel injector circuit.

anything else you think might be the culprit? i have pretty much covered everything i think.

is there a wire that comes off the fuel pump to the ECU that tells the ECU the fuel pump is on and/or primed? i have not checked but i did have to repair the ground wire for the fuel pump (it works fine just fixed the connector on top the tank, soldered it up then taped).
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:38 AM (Merged)
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BMRFIXIT
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all i add is check the wiring. check for battery power at the injectors with key on and also check the wiring back to the ECM. let me know.


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/99387_injector_1.jpg

Feb 12, 2021 at 11:38 AM (Merged)
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BRADSURFING
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I did this a while ago, probably did not catch it due to all the information i gave.
it is fine it gets power (oh that diagram where it has D4 for injector should be D14, because d4 is really for ignition module) it is a typo on Chilton's behalf (where Autozone gets the diagram).

When I replaced the ECM the truck started! Thanks for all of your help this site rocks!
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:38 AM (Merged)
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STRTRCR405
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Went through all the steps you listed and then some, still no luck with my 1988 c1500, after a frustrating day of messing with it a buddy comes over taps on the injector a couple times and what do you know spraying like a champ and it starts right up! might be worth a shot. good luck.
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:38 AM (Merged)
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LONGO82
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I am having similar problems my truck is on the side of the road need to get it off have fuel going through the line pump kicks on and all nothing coming out of the injectors. However, I was driving it pretty hard and then it just shut off. I do not know if the process is the same as yours or not. if I disconnect the TPS will my Injectors fire?
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:38 AM (Merged)
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CARADIODOC
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In particular, the observation about tapping on the injectors does not sound right. There are two of them, and failure of one would be rare. To have both stop working at the same time is not very likely. A better suspect is spread terminals in the connector, but that usually causes intermittent operation of just one of the injectors. Tapping on that connector could overcome the bad connection and start that injector working, for a while.

You need to check for spark first, before you go looking for the hard stuff. The "clear flood" mode had better not prevent spark from occurring, as that would just make the problem worse. There was some confusion there to. The throttle position sensor on almost every engine has a 5.0-volt feed wire and a ground wire that will actually have 0.2 volts on it. The TPS has mechanical stops inside it that, for the sake of explaining theory, limits its range of travel on the signal wire from 0.5 volts to 4.5 volts. It is physically impossible for the signal voltage to go outside that range unless there is a break in a wire or a broken connection inside the sensor. Those wiring defects will send the signal voltage to 0.0 volts or 5.0 volts, and that is what the engine computer needs to see to set a diagnostic fault code. In actual practice, you may find the range to go from, oh, 0.38 volts to perhaps 4.2 volts. No two sensors are ever exactly the same. The point is you must never see 0.0 or 5.0 volts on the signal wire.

Also, understand that disconnecting the TPS may not prove anything. The open circuit on the signal wire will force an intentional 5.0 volts which is intended to set a fault code, and that code tells the computer to stop basing any fuel metering or other decisions on those readings. The TPS actually has the least say in fuel metering than any of the sensors. Also, nothing related to the TPS will cause loss of spark.

It is important to check for spark when you have no injector pulses. Too many people get hung up on the first thing they find missing, and neglect to see all the other related symptoms. About ninety five percent of crank/no-starts are the result of no spark and no injector pulses. The other five percent are caused by loss of spark, or loss of injector pulses, or a non-running fuel pump.

The coolant temperature sensor has absolutely nothing to do with the TPS or with modifying the TPS's signal voltage, except that multiple sensors share a common ground wire.

The place to start the diagnosis is always to first read and record the diagnostic fault codes. You can only do that yourself on Chrysler products, or on GM products older than 1996 models. It is possible to read them on 1995 and older Fords too, but it is a miserable procedure and takes a long time. For 1996 and newer GM's, you need a scanner or a simple code reader. Those fault codes may tell you the circuit or system that needs to be diagnosed, and for this problem, that is most often the crankshaft position sensor circuit or the camshaft position sensor circuit.
Feb 12, 2021 at 11:38 AM (Merged)