411 Code and High Idle

1941 FORD TAURUS
Avatar
CAR*MAN
  • MEMBER
  • 10 POSTS
1995 TAURUS GL 3.0L WAGAON w/110,000 miles.
Maybe someone can give me some help? I recently had my transmision fixed at an AAMCO dealer and when I got the car back the idle was high. They insisted that they did nothing wrong {although I pointed out that one of the sensors was not connected} and that they had a hard read on the air flow sensor. Though I did not get the same on my AutoXray Scanner, I came up with the 411 Code: CANNOT CONTROL RPM DURING KOER LOW RPM CHECK. I've changed the following parts: cat converter, plugs, wires, distributor, rotor, EGR valve, throttle position sensor, idle air control, pvc, EGR Valve tube to manifold, EGR pressure valve sensor, EGR vacuum regulator assembly, both oxygen sensors, radiator and both upper and lower hoses, thermostat, air change temperature sensor, battery, both control arms, strut rod bushing, sub frame bushings both front and rear, fuel pump, fuel filter, air filter....and that's about all I can recall at the moment. All of these repairs were done by me. I had asked the owner of the AAMCO dealership if he knew what his machanics did, and again he insists that nothing was done wrong. All of these parts that I mentioned were change since my having the Transmisision serviced in Nov of 2006. The idle never falls below 1024. Only a couple of times it did fall to about 900 rpm but then went back up and stayed at about 1100 rpm. I am thinking of changing the intake manifold gasket, but would appreciate your opinion on this. I thank you for your time and any help you can give. Sincerely, Jimmy.
Sep 13, 2007 at 2:08 PM
Advertisement
Avatar
CAR*MAN
  • MEMBER
  • 10 POSTS
[quote:292e9bdb65="justanold"]HELLO!
Thank You for the donation! That moves you to the front of the line. Will need some more info. Does your cooling fan stay on all the time? if you unplug the IAC..does the idle go down? remove the throttle cable from the t-body..any change? try pushing on the t-body lever towards idle..any change? how does your trans shift compared to the original? Your answers will give us a starting point. 8) 8) 8)[/quote:292e9bdb65]
The cooling fan only come on when the engine becomes hot, and then shuts off when cooled. There is no change when the IAC is unplugged...nor is there any when the throttle cable is disconnected. Now, the t-body lever can not go back any further than at its idle state. I even adjusted the screw to see if it would go back and it left a gap between the screw and the stop plate. The transmission shifts fine through the gears, but when it comes to stopping there is a thump coming out of first gear. If I pop my foot off the brake or a quick lock of the brake in a non moving state {car in overdrive gear} the tranny will bang in and out of gear. When I told the guy at AAMCO of this he said he made an adjustment to the "SPRING TENSION" so it should be okay. Well.....it ain't. Anyway Justanold, the ball is in your court. I'm ready for round two. Thanks for all of your help and skills. Jimmy
Sep 14, 2007 at 6:06 PM
Avatar
CAR*MAN
  • MEMBER
  • 10 POSTS
Unplugged the cnaister hose to purge selenoid and plugged it up as asked. Started engine and noticed immediate lower rpm's as engine began warming up. {around 900 rpm} At one point it read a low of 888 rpm. As engine reached its first fan cycle {at 214 degrees} the rpm registered and maintained a level of 965 to 980. A decrease from the reading of 1024-1045 before performing the test. Back to justanold.
Sep 16, 2007 at 3:16 PM
Advertisement
Avatar
CAR*MAN
  • MEMBER
  • 10 POSTS
[quote:92efd2466b="justanold"]HELLO!
Some progress. leave the vac line plugged for now. purchase a can of carb. cleaner for the next step. rerun the diag. test to see what pops up after clearing the 411 code. i'm trying to stay away from intake gaskets and t-body also. You said you changed the EGR tube and controls. did you replace the EGR itself? this is looking more and more like a vac. leak. back to you Jimmy. 8) 8) 8)[/quote:92efd2466b]
Left vac line plugged, already own cans of carb cleaner, and rescanned after egine warmed. Still showing the 411 code. Also 536 code which deals with the brake depressing and release not being recognized during test. You asked about the EGR being replaced and the answer is yes. All parts are from ford except the cat converter which I got from Autozone. The one thing I did not mention before is the fact that when I step on the accelerator the rpm does not return as fast as it should. This of course sounds like a leak somewhere. Back to you.
Sep 16, 2007 at 6:07 PM
Avatar
CAR*MAN
  • MEMBER
  • 10 POSTS
[quote:6585dc562a="justanold"]HELLO!
Turn heater/AC to OFF so that the engine cooling fan doesn't run. partially warmed engine with intake tube to t-body connected. at idle start spraying carb cleaner in short spurts (using the spray wand) at small sections of vac lines--intake manifold and t-body. follow vac lines from the eng. source to component small sections at a time. when the RPM rises..you have found a leak. might not be the only one so keep going. now go back and pinpoint what is leaking. Back to you Jimmy. 8) 8) 8)[/quote:6585dc562a]
For the past two days I have checked and rechecked all vacuum lines possible. Changed a couple of hoses that looked worn and still there is no change in the idle. I reran the scan and still come up snake eyes. As I stated before, the AAMCO boys from Mexico left one of the sensors upnplugged that was clearly visible to the eye. I am still wondering if there is one somewhere that I can't see that is still unplugged. In my searching I came across one possible sensor that comes off of the harness that is located right below the air fillter and runs under the throttle body to the rear of the engine. This harness also holds the rear Oxygen Sensor line. The unplugged item has the shap of a cigar. Then there is another one I located that is tucked behind the windshield wiper motor. This one appears to have the shape of that of an Oxygen Sensor. Can you tell me if these are suppose to be connected to something, or are they for some sort of test purpose? Back to you.
Sep 19, 2007 at 9:50 PM
Avatar
CAR*MAN
  • MEMBER
  • 10 POSTS
[quote:c241b64571="justanold"]HELLO!
The connectors you found i'm unsure about. will get into it if needed. Engine running @ idle..use pliers to pinch off the vac. hose going to the brake booster..any change? next you get to replace the ECT.sensor your eng. might think that it's cold. look at the trans pan..does it say AX4N ? There are some electrical tests you can do for the IAC if needed. you will need a digital multimeter for these. Back to you Jimmy. 8) 8) 8)[/quote:c241b64571]
Put in new ECT sensor and pinched off the hose to the brake booster, but no change. Before I go any further last week I noticed my right side brake acting funny when I would apply it at speeds of 40 miles per hour or more. It was a pulsating reaction. I knew it could not be the rotors because they're only one year old, and I don't over-tighten the lugs. But maybe there is a leak so small that is screwing up the rpm? The tranny is a AXOD 17 bolt pan. I havee a multimeter so now.....back to you.
Sep 20, 2007 at 5:51 PM
Avatar
CAR*MAN
  • MEMBER
  • 10 POSTS
[quote:3ea459f288="justanold"]HELLO!
I want you to disconnect the battery for 10mins. then reconnect and retest. any new codes? i'll send you the electrical tests needed via Email. i'm not sure if trans line pressure can affect idle speed with the AXOD-E but it can on AOD trannys. after the elect. tests this may be our next thing to check out. i wouldn't call AAMCO for this info but an independent shop would know. Back to you Jimmy. 8) 8) 8)[/quote:3ea459f288]
Disconnected battery for two hours, reran scan and still have 411 code. I than ran the electrical tests first measuring the IAC solenoid resistance that came up at 9.9 ohms. The second test was for internal short to IAC solenoid case which came back at 0.00. No short present. The third test was to check VPWR circuit voltage which came back at 0.2 volts. Back to you.
Sep 25, 2007 at 5:22 PM
Avatar
CAR*MAN
  • MEMBER
  • 10 POSTS
[quote:58d5a040a0="justanold"]HELLO!
I want to double check that reading. take your meter to the battery posts and test it there. 12.4 or so? now take the red lead to the RED wire at the IAC connector and the black lead to the neg. batt. post..turn ignition switch on..still read the same .2 volts? if so we have a bad splice and will have to track it down. if you get batt. voltage..then call around about the "line pressure" possibility. i will track down the splice points and Email them to you. Back to you Jimmy. 8) 8) 8)[/quote:58d5a040a0]
Battery reads: 12.47 volts. Red Lead (+) to Red Wire at IAC connector and Black Lead (-) to negative battery post reads: 0.00 volts. Also tried Red Lead to White Wire and Black Lead to negative battery post with same results. When I tried Red Wire to positive battery post I got the 0.2 volts reading. Same reading with White Wire to negative battery post. I'll try to see if I can get an answer about the pressure line from the tranny question as you aked. Back to you.
Sep 26, 2007 at 8:58 AM
Avatar
CAR*MAN
  • MEMBER
  • 10 POSTS
I am the person who had the issue of the idle problem some time ago. I finally found out what the problem was when I went to change my engine oil.
As you may or may not know this problem started when I took my car in for a check-up on a transmission repair issue at AAMCO in Queens, New York. When I returned to pick up my car the idle was crazy. The owner said he knew nothing about it and would not address the matter at all
After going over the car and finding several issues (front motor mount bolts finger tight, plastic band used to reconnect CV boot to halfshaft, busted control arm and bushings put on backwards, ect), I went about doing the repairs on my own.
With the idle still remaining high, I went to change my oil, there it was.
The oil was replaced with transmission fluid. ALL OF IT !!!!
The problem being that this engine already had over one hundred thousand miles on it, all of the worn areas in the engine were now cleaned out by the tranny fluid thus allowing for no seals in the pistons and allowing blow by and loss of compression.
I am now happy to say that after a few thousand new miles and the use of oil additives to help seal back the engine the idle has woked its way back down to normal.
I do want to thank everyone for their feedback and suggestions. I hope that this can bring about a quick answer to anyone with a similar situation.
I do not want to bad mouth AAMCO but when I went back with the halfshaft with plastic tie in place I was told by the owner that that was a normal repair and as for the rest of the issues with my car he fired the mexican worker who worked on my car.
So as always....Let this be a word of caution to all...and take a wrench into your own hands. It'll save you a lot in the long run.
Jul 29, 2009 at 1:56 AM