timing marks?

Do not rotate camshaft or crankshaft after timing belt is removed, or engine damage may result. this is the timing marks

Yes, that is exactly how I lined up the timing marks (Hayes showed it this way too). For the life of me I cannot figure out why it doesn't have spark. Do you think the computer went dead?

I changed my timing belt
with pulleys waterpump and camshaft sealings.
That is a difficult job to do because of the steering bracket that
does not allow acces to rear camshaft pulley.
.
I did the all job with battery connected as I was obliged to remove crankshat pulley
by cranking the starter motor without the inlet manifold and its sensors (MAP and IAT).

Check several times the timing was OK by reving several time
the engine by hand, and then started it.

It started several times with pain with an ugly noise and stall.
And now it does not start anymore and there is no more sparking at plugs.
Check engine light was on each time the engine started and was off for the next attempt.

Steering belt not yet installed.

My timing is OK, and I wonder what did I bad!

Cannot read codes as my engine does not start anymore.

Ordered a crankshaft sensor at rockauto.

if my dodge stratus water pump is leaking, do i have to replace the timing belt and pulleys

You don't HAVE to but it's penny-wise and dollar-foolish to not replace everything. Replacing the pump and replacing the belt are both very big and expensive jobs, and both require the exact same disassembly. Your mechanic is trying to save you money in the long run by combining both jobs. The only added cost will be for the extra parts. The timing belt has to come off to replace the water pump, and it would be silly to put the old belt back on.

By the way, Chrysler has relatively little trouble with timing belts, but if your car was a Honda, you would have had two broken belts and damaged valves by now. Their belts typically break at 65,000 miles, and their recommended replacement interval is 75,000 miles. Bent valves means at least $2000.00 in additional repairs besides the timing belt.

caradiodoc

’99 Dodge Stratus, 2.5 V6. About 9 months ago, car quit running. SIL (son-in-law) decided he would fix it. Don’t know what all he did, but he couldn’t get it to run. Instead of bringing it to me (I used to own the car and did all the maintenance on it for 8 years), he took it to his father. FIL (daughter’s father-in-law) replaced the crankshaft position sensor, distributor, rotor, cap, timing belt. Still wouldn’t run. After 8 months, SIL & FIL asked me to try.
Engine would crank but not run. Checked timing marks – with crankshaft timing mark pointed at TDC, 1/3/5 cam timing mark off by 3 teeth BTDC and 2/4/6 cam timing mark off by 2 teeth ATDC. No fire to the plugs. I re-replaced distributor (it was under parts warranty). Still no fire to the plugs. Replaced computer. Now engine would fire. Checked each plug – all terribly oil/carbon fouled. Replaced all plugs and wires (1/3/5 plug wires were crushed under intake plenum). Compression is 180 PSI each cylinder. I find no vacuum leak. Engine will run (and I use that 3-letter word very loosely), but accelerator pedal does nothing to increase engine speed and engine pops and wheezes constantly. I pulled the fuel line apart where it goes to the injector rack – it is getting fuel (gas will run out of the rack). I even tried starting fluid and propane in the intake but that didn’t make any difference. Engine runs as if distributor was 180 degrees out of time – but crank and both cams point to TDC and rotor points to #1 distributor cap contact.
Is it possible to have the crank & cam timing marks dead-on, but still be out 180 degrees? Any other suggestions? What am I missing?

Welcome to the forum, thanks for the donation. One possibility is the egr system causing a problem. I'd also check for codes, see if that points you in any particular direction. As far as timing issues, I'd have to look at it. Your compression spec looks ok to me.

Please explain how the EGR system would cause these problems (just so I'll understand). There are no codes and I have a code reader that would tell me what to look for. I'm out of ideas and am totally stumped. Even some of us old-schoolers run out of ideas. If this was a mid-60s SBC, it would be running like a clock right now (I just happen to have one - a '59 283 with a 700R4 behind it - on the frame rails of my '36 Hudson Terraplane 2-Door Sedan.

If the egr is leaking, you would be lucky if it idled at all. It should add exhaust gases only under higher rpm conditions. It was just a possibility.

Turned out to be a bad Crankshaft Position Sensor. Re-replaced it this past Monday and the car runs (almost) like new.

Glad you got it going your way.

What is the proper procedure to realign camshaft and crankshaft timing belt positions with the car listed above with missing the timing belt?

You need a copy of the manufacturer's service manual for a job like this. Unfortunately I am unable to copy and paste the list of instructions from the online site. I was able to post the diagrams.

The tensioner needs to be removed and reset slowly in a vise, then insert a pin to hold it there while the belt is being installed.

Thank you, CARADIODOC, for your help and quick response.

When replacing an existing timing belt one can turn the engine to top dead center (TDC) and align the timing marks, before removing the old belt, but in my circumstance the belt is missing and the cams and crankshaft are not on TDC.

It looks like the belt and adjuster were removed which allowed the right camshaft(closest to the firewall), to have turned( from valve spring tensions), and caused the belt to jump approximately seven teeth, rotating towards the firewall. The left cam and crankshaft remained in position, but not at TDC.

The crankshaft timing mark is pointed at five o'clock and the left camshaft pulley is pointed at three o'clock position, when viewing from the passenger side of engine towards the driver side.

I need the priority sequence and proper procedure to turn the individual shafts to reach the TDC alignment of timing marks, without any interference damage from valve to piston contact.

Can you give me the URL link to the manufacturers web page that has the procedure list of instructions.

This is an interference engine means if crank or cams are turned without timing belt properly aligned pistons will contact valves and bend them usually half of the valves are affected. so head needs to be removed valves replaced then aligned and reinstalled.

Yup, Docfixit is right about this being a interference engine, but the bent valves depends on what happened. If the timing belt broke while the engine was running, some of the valves will be bent. If the engine was running, and someone just started a maintenance belt replacement procedure, the camshafts will turn a little but the valves will not be damaged.

There is no specific procedure like you are looking for to reset the camshafts. If the valves are not bent now, you are not going to bend them by turning things by hand, as long as you stop when you feel resistance. I prefer to rotate the crankshaft backward so the TDC mark is about a fifth of a revolution before actual TDC. That insures no piston is at top dead center. Rotate each camshaft to its timing mark. If valve spring pressure prevents it from staying there, use a bar through the sprocket to lock it in place. Now bring the crankshaft to top dead center, and install the belt.

Do not be surprised when one or both cam sprockets is off a tooth or two and you have to manipulate it to the right setting. When it appears to be right, rotate the crank sprocket two complete revolutions, always in the normal direction. Be aware the valves will hit the pistons if a cam sprocket is off by three teeth on some engines.

Also, be aware all the slack in the belt will be taken up by the tensioner pulley, on the backside of the engine. That is why it critical to never turn the crankshaft sprocket backward.

I have a 98 Dodge Stratus (150k miles) and the timing belt broke yesterday while driving. As a result, some valves are bent and need to be replaced. Which is a big job. The kbb value of the car is a little under $4k. The repairs, including labor and parts, would cost me between $2k and $2.5k. If I were to sell this car in current condition to a person who repairs cars for a living so they could fix it and flip it for profit on their own time, what is a reasonable price for me to ask?

It all depends on where you live. In my area, that particular car (with all the problems) will go for between ($500 - 800). A good running car (98 with 150K miles) will go for about $3K. Use kbb.com as a starting point, but it is not absolute. You need to check your local ads for comparison.

just wondering if the timing belt needs to be pulled in order to remove the heads on this car... if so, can i have a timing diagram so i can see clearly where the timing marks are?? also... any other information on doing this job will be helpful... send what u know!! thanks, i appreciate it!

***I strongly urge that you get either a Chilton or Haynes manual handy to help you through the process. These manuals have more pictures and tips for DIY than the online manual meant for seasoned technicians.***

whats the deal with the balancer... do i need a special puller, or will any harmonic balance puller work??? also, do u know what size fuel disconnect tools i need??? thanks

also, do i have to replace these bolts... were they torque to yield bolts???

[quote:7e22612777="madmike1735"]whats the deal with the balancer... do i need a special puller, or will any harmonic balance puller work??? also, do u know what size fuel disconnect tools i need??? thanks[/quote:7e22612777]

Nope. Just jam the biggest screw driver you can find into the one of the pulley slot, and remove the crank nut. Then just pull the pulley out.

I don't remember the fuel size. I do believe it is 5/16".

As they are torqued, you should replace them bolts.

I am putting on a new water pump. Before I started I set the crank at top dead center but after I removed the timing belt I think I moved the cam shaft (this is an interference engine). There are two sprockets for the cam shaft each sproket has 2 grooves in it, these grooves are on either side of the spoket in a straight line. My question is when the crank is top dead center should these 4 grooves be in line with each other.

I am changing the head gasket on a 1996 Dodge Stratus 2.4L due to oil leak problems. I have the disassembly down to the point where I need to remove the timing belt, but I can't seem to get the alignment marks in the camshaft sprockets to line up in the center. I have rotated the crankshaft pulley multiple times and they never line up. After two revolutions of the crankshaft, the rear (exhaust?) mark seems to be in roughly the same position as the front sprocket, almost as if the factory mounted the same sprockets on each camshaft. It looks like they have identical markings on the sprocket (on one web it says "FRONT 2.4L" and on the other is an arrow and the word "UP").

This is a low mileage car (50000 actual) that has never had any significant work done until now, so it must have come from the factory this way. It was running fine, I'm only doing the head gasket because it was leaking significant oil. Has anyone ever seen this kind of situation before? Do I have to rotate the crankshaft many, many times before they come into alignment? (I have maybe turned it 20 revolutions, all clockwise). I suppose I can get it into where I believe the correct mark should be and add my own, but I'm nervous enough about getting this right and I don't want to add any additional variables if I don't have to.

Thanks for any help,

Dave

Hi:
Can you take a look at this and let me know if it is what you are dealing with? It sounds like you are one tooth out when you finish installing it.

https://www.2carpros.com/car_repair_information/year/1996/make/dodge/model/stratus/1996_dodge_stratus_timing_belt_diagram_marks.htm

Let me know.

The drawing most of the way down the page (G00256407) is the most relevant to my engine (the 2.4L is Dual Overhead Cam). My problem is that if I rotate the belt so that the right hand cam sprocket timing mark lines up in the middle, the left hand mark is not visible anywhere near the center. It is hard to tell exactly where it is, but it is somewhere on the far left hand side of the sprocket. If I rotate the belt until the left sprocket is pointing to the center, the right hand sprocket timing market is off on the far right.

If I understand this correctly, it takes two revolutions of the crankshaft sprocket to make one revolution of both camshaft sprockets. If I line up the pointer on the crankshaft, the right hand camshaft may not line up toward the center; but if I rotate the crankshaft one more revolution, the right hand camshaft mark will line up in the center. But the left hand mark never aligns with the right mark, no matter how many times I rotate the crankshaft.

As I said, this engine has never had any work done on it, so this has to be the way it came from the factory. It was running fine before I started this, and I haven't yet removed the timing belt so it is in the same alignment it had when it was running. I haven't tried to rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise because I know it can possibly cause the timing belt to jump a tooth. All my rotations have been clockwise.

If the camshafts were really as far out of alignment as they appear, I would think I would encounter resistance somewhere as things started colliding. But I can rotate it through the full cycle easily with just a 3/8" ratchet. So what it appears is that the timing marks are just meaningless as they are now (at least the one on the left hand cam sprocket). This would seem to be a factory mistake; and I'm just wondering if anyone has ever encountered a mistake like this.

I can take photos and send them if it will help make my situation clearer. Thank you for your help; this is the biggest job I have ever attempted, and I am taking it very slow to make sure I don't make any dumb mistakes. But knowing how important the timing alignment is, I'm concerned that there seems to be no way to correctly align these sprockets as they stand.

I think I understand what you are saying. First, if it is in the position it was when running, make your own marks to align from. And yes, I beieve there is a 2 to 1 ratio with the sprockets.

As far as a picture, I would be interested in seeing it. It may help me figure out what is going on. But I agree with you, they should all align at the same time.