Engine no start problem?

Hello –

To better assist you is your model a LS or Z34? Also please provide your engine size in liter and the 8th digit of your VIN.

When you say no start and no crank……………you turned the key and nothing happened it was all totally quiet….no engine turning at all……so you changed the starter?

Before I get your answer I am going to assume that all is dead other than you turn the key on, the dash lights up normal but all is dead and quiet.

If you take jumper cables and put the positive directly on the starter does it work then with key on?

Plug the remote back together also……and try it that way…….

Hello –

Hey also, do you know how to check the codes on your car? If so check them…..if not let me know and I will tell you how.

Thank you for getting back so quick. To answer about codes, I have no plug in computer, but i believe you can jump receptacle under dash with paper clip to get reading. but not sure which pins to jump. If you can tell me how, I can do it. Also to answer other question on first post-- car is a LS, engine is 3.1Liter, VIN 2G1WW12M9S9142038

jumped starter from running vehicle. Negative cable to battery negative, positive to starter with key in run position. NOTHING! hooked security module back up and still nothing, repeated, nothing. Anything else?[quote:9a44ca7e33="ImpalaSS"]Hello –

To better assist you is your model a LS or Z34? Also please provide your engine size in liter and the 8th digit of your VIN.

When you say no start and no crank……………you turned the key and nothing happened it was all totally quiet….no engine turning at all……so you changed the starter?

Before I get your answer I am going to assume that all is dead other than you turn the key on, the dash lights up normal but all is dead and quiet.

If you take jumper cables and put the positive directly on the starter does it work then with key on?

Plug the remote back together also……and try it that way…….

Thanks for the donation

Please let us know if what the final fix was for your car so we can better assist others. Thanks!

Find a car repair manual for your car repair questions.[/quote:9a44ca7e33]

Hello - Okay........thanks for the info........... For checking codes.......you are correct.........you jump A and B pin together with a paperclip or something like that. I realize the car won't start but I still stress that in my directions to not turn it all the way to run. I have attached how you check for codes. See if it makes sense to you. The big thing.....DO NOT START THE CAR! You basically put as a jumper wire or paper clip and jump from the A pin to the B pin. Jump them together. You then turn the car on to where JUST the lights on the dash come on ONLY.....DO NOT START THE CAR! Watch your check engine light. The first flash is the first number and the second flash it the second number. So you sit with paper and pencil and count the flashes. It will flash the same number 3 times and then go to the next if there is one. It should always start with 12. So for 12 it will be: Flash (1) pause flash, flash (2), longer pause.... Flash (1) pause flash, flash (2), longer pause.... Flash (1) pause flash, flash (2), longer pause.... Now from this point on watch and count the other numbers. Say it is 31. It would be: Flash, Flash, Flash (3) pause flash (1) longer pause.... Flash, Flash, Flash (3) pause flash (1) longer pause.... Flash, Flash, Flash (3) pause flash (1) longer pause....that would be code 31. The second you see it repeating it self, then turn the car off and immediately remove the paper clip or jumper wire so you don't forget. Again - I can not stress enough......DO NOT START THE CAR. Now for the jumping the starter..........If I understand you correctly you jumped from another running vehicle.............since the battery of your MC is good.....(from what we know since the dash lights come on) just run the positive jumper cable from the pos post and tough the nut that the positive cable attaches to on the starter and see what you get. If you jump from another car then you may have to go.....running car: neg to neg battery post and pos to pos battery post.......MC.......neg to some metal object on the engine....positive directly to starter. Okay.........let me know.............Happy New Year by the way......make sure you eat some black-eyed peas!

Thank you for your quick response. i'm checking the codes now and will get back asap. You are an angel to be doing this so quickly for me on a holiday!

Ok- I went to check the codes as you said. I inserted the paper clip, but the "B" spot had no wire! Only wire in the bracket was the "A". i turned the key to RUN position and heard the fuel pump whir. I tried to start-NO PAPER CLIP IN ANYTHING!-it started and dies. Did this 3 times. Then started and ran with a lot of hesitation. Started again and ran for 1 minute then died like it was running out of fuel? Couldn't get a code reading at all. (NO PINS IN BRACKET-don't know where they went to but will go out and look under dash.). Started again and it ran for a minute then sounded like it was bogging down and stalled. Possibly the fuel pump? (It was still making some noise) If so, do I have to drop the fuel tank to get to it? I have 3/4 tank of fuel.Thanks, Henny

Hello –

Not a problem – glad to help………….

Henny

Do you have any starting fluid to spray into the throttle body to see if it wants to stay running?

I will be checking on the other thing you ask….yes check under the dash to see where that went?

Henny

Yes sorry, it does appear you have to drop the tank………have you done this before

Car runs for about 1 minute, will do the startibng fluid thing now and check under dash. Will be back shortly. Thanks.

Henny

I am trying to locate the color of the wires for the DLC to better assist.

Again, have you ever dropped a tank before?

Henny

How many wires do you show? 4 maybe

Black in the A pin
Grey in the D pin
Dark Green in the J pin
Tan in the M pin

Yes. I've dropped the tank on my 69 olds cutlass, and my son's 94 mustang, did a fuel pump on a 2001 mitsu under the rear seat.
The wires for the bracket have been removed and wired into what looks a module for the remote starter. I can't make out exactly how they are wired. It is a jumbled mess. I can take a pic if my camera works and that helps you. I also tried the starting fluid and the engine did die even though I sprayed as it ran. There is also some sort of toggle switch under the dash that seem to be wired into the remote starter. It doesn't seem to make a difference either way. It will start and run for a minute either way.

I included the pics from under the dash. It is a mess. There is a small gray box for the remote starter and a long black box also. Don't know what they do or how to bypass them if they are the problem.

the only wire in that is in the bracket is 2 wire dual color black and tan

Hello –

Well, look at the wire colors that I attached and see if they are the correct colors before the pic.

It may not want to run because the air cleaner is off……….sometimes the TBs act like that.

Swap your fuel relay with another like relay……

Here is some info on the relay…………


Description and Operation
Notes

When the ignition switch is turned to the "ON" position (before engaging starter), the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) energizes the fuel pump relay for two seconds causing the fuel pump to pressurize the fuel system. If the PCM does not receive ignition reference pulses (engine cranking or running) within two seconds, it shuts "OFF" the fuel pump relay, causing the fuel pump to stop.

As a backup system to the fuel pump relay the fuel pump also can be energized by the fuel pump switch and engine oil pressure sensor. The sensor has two internal circuits. One operates the oil pressure indicator or gage on the instrument cluster, and the other is a normally open switch which closes when oil pressure reaches about 28 kPa (4 psi). If the fuel pump relay fails, a Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) 54 will be set in the PCM, and the fuel pump and engine oil pressure indicator switch runs the fuel pump.

An inoperative fuel pump relay can result in long cranking times, particularly if the engine is cold. The fuel pump switch and engine oil pressure indicator switch energizes the fuel pump as soon as oil pressure reaches about 28 kPa (4 psi).

It may be the fuel pump……..looks like you have had your share of tank drops……..fun isn’t it….okay, maybe not……..I do not understand why they don’t put access panels in them all.

Hello –

Wow you are fast………nice pics…………thanks

When you say 2 wire………black tan….is that two wires, one black and one tan?

If it is two wires………one black and one tan….try taking the codes from that……….

there are 2 wires (one black and one tan) that are put into one electrical spade type connector and that is in the slot for wire "A"

Hello –

Jump those two….the black to the tan – sorry to say again…….but please don’t’ start the car

the two wires are together and no way to jump them unless I insert clip into "A" slot and then try to ground to something. Also, there is no other relay to swap the fuel pump relay with. The only other one oin the box has 4 prongs. Fuel pump relay has 5 prongs.

Hello –

Well the tan wire is the one that needs to be grounded………..the black is the ground…….so you have a black and tan wire in the same clip?

yes, they are in the same clip

Hello –

If I understood you earlier you still have on black wire sitting there in A pin…..so ground that to the black/tan and see if that works.

Does that look like a dealer splice or a home one

Looks like it is original dealer wire. No splice in wire, but everything else is messy. Not the way my dad taught me to do things

the black wire in A pin is paired up with the tan wire, The two of them are in the A pin together with no splices anywhere. It seems to be factory, not home wired.

By the way………you are sure you are getting spark………you might pull a plug wire off of the spark plug and insert something into the end of it and have someone try to start the car and have the metal object really close to a piece of metal on the engine and see if you are getting a good strong popping blue spark on a couple of the plugs.

I don’t want to stay so focused on the fuel we overlook something else…..so let’s rule that out.

You don’t happen to have an electric fuel pump sitting around do you?

I am thinking and reviewing the wiring on that DLC again……

No don't have a pump hanging around, But will try to check for good spark. It has been running a little rough for a while. When I did the spark plugs a few months ago, I could only get to 5 of them. The last one in back, toward the driver side was inaccessible. It seems that I have to move the engine to get to it. No combination of tools would help.

checked 4 out of six plugs-fire is bright blue and abundant!

Hello –

I believe the pump is going out………I always replace the relay when I do the pump.

It would be nice to be able to get a fuel pressure check on it.

My thought with the spare fuel pump though I don’t recommend it often…..the last Chevy Blazer that died about 100 yards from the garage….uphill….I took a spare electric fuel pump, removed the valve stem in the fuel rail……put one end of the fuel pump there and the other in a gas container, grabbed the fire extinguisher, connected the battery to it……it fired right up….drove it into the garage…….so that was a clear sign the fuel pump was bad.

Hello –

Well then – I would have to say fuel………since it was running I am going to assume the wiring isn’t a factor.

The pump can be gradually losing volume/pressure thus the rough running at times.

going to get pump and relay. I'll try one than the other. I will let you know. thanks friend!

Hello –

Well my friend….I will be looking forward to hearing from you…

You might consider getting some rubber hose to replace any that is there once the tank is down. Preventive maintenance for later.

got the relay, pump, screen and fuel filter. replaced the relay, ran it for 5 minutes-shut it off, started it and it ran for 45 seconds. Tank is in the middle of car under the rear seat, fuel filter in front of tank. I'm going to need my son's help with this one. i'll try to do most of it todaybut it will probably go into saturday. I have to work tomorrow. thanks again. Will keep you posted.

Well Henny I looked across about 288 TSBs for you car........didn't see anything of concern with the fuel tank drop etc. However, you may have some recalls on your vehicle. A couple to me a pretty important. Seat belt, control arm etc. The dealer may fix these for free. Please contact the dealer service department, give them the VIN number of your car and have them check on these to see if they apply to you. 96C27 04/02/1996 Campaign - Redundant Radio Controls in Steering Wheel 95C08 10/21/1994 Campaign - A/T Defective 2nd Clutch Reaction Plate 97023 06/03/1997 Recall - Rear Seat Belt Anchor Plate NHTSA97V065000 04/18/1997 Recall 97V065000: Rear Seat Belt Replacement 97003 03/01/1997 Recall - Windshield Wiper Switch Defective NHTSA97V017000 02/04/1997 Recall 97V017000: Washer/Wiper Defect NHTSA94V23000 11/14/1994 Recall 94V23000: Ball Joint Mount Defect NHTSA94V230000 11/14/1994 Recall 94V230000: Suspension Lower Control Arm Failure Looks like you have all of the goodies for the tank drop....good luck on that........... And you do have the 12 pin DLC not the 16 pin correct.........

I am still trying to search around to see why the wiring is that way...... The diagrams only show4 wires........Black in the A pin, Gray in the D pin, Dark Green in the J pin and Tan in the M. And there isn't any wires not really hanging but caught up in the wiring that should be in the connector? Thanks again for the pics.................. You must have been running back and for to the computer.............enjoyed working with you today.......... Try to have a great New Years day................. I'll be looking forward to hearing from you............

Hello Henny

I was just checking to see if you had made any progress with the tank drop and if the problem was taken care of.

Hi, No I didn't drop the tank yet. Someone had told me that I could be having a problem with the MAS sensor and to check the pressure at the fuel rail before I drop the tank. Will try to do it this week. I need to check that out. I have been working and haven't had the time to check it out as well as my old faithful dog of 14 years having to be put down last weekend. It's been a long two weeks. Thanks for remembering and writing back.

Hi Henny

I am very sorry to hear about your dog. You are the second person this week that has lost a dear pet…………..

Well, the only way I show to check that sensor is by the codes that you cannot check.

I have attached info on it for you…………

MASS AIRFLOW SENSOR (MAF). Mounted ahead of the throttle body on multiport fuel injected engines, this sensor monitors the volume of air entering the engine. The sensor uses either a hot wire or heated filament to measure both airflow and air density.
MAF Sensor Strategies: The sensing element in MAF sensors can be easily contaminated causing hard starting, rough idle, hesitation and stalling problems.


Another way to check the fuel pump was to spray starting fluid into the throttle body and see if it wants to run………