I haven't been able to get it to start?

Wow, your approach to this has probably created numerous new issues now. Throwing parts at a problem will never work out.

All "crank, no start" conditions are approached in the same way. Every engine requires certain functions to be able to run. Some of these functions rely on specific components to work and some components are part of more than one function so it is important to see the whole picture to be able to conclude anything about what may have failed. Also, these functions can ONLY be tested during the failure. Any other time and they will simply test good because the problem isn't present at the moment.
If you approach this in any other way, you are merely guessing and that only serves to replace unnecessary parts and wastes money.



Every engine requires spark, fuel and compression to run. That's what we have to look for.

These are the basics that need to be tested and will give us the info required to isolate a cause.

1) Test for spark at the plug end of the wire using a spark tester. If none found, check for power supply on the + terminal of the coil with the key on.


2) Test for injector pulse using a small bulb called a noid light. If none found, check for power supply at one side of the injector with the key on.


3) Use a fuel pressure gauge to test for correct fuel pressure, also noticing if the pressure holds when key is shut off.

4) If all of these things check good, then you would need to do a complete compression test.

Once you have determined which of these functions has dropped out,
you will know which system is having the problem.

Thank you for your input. Most of the new parts were purchased before I got the car. But I have performed a compression test on every cylinder, after cranking the engine four rotations they were all between 180-190psi
Also performed fuel pressure test this automatically went to around 45 psi after turning key off I waited 15 mins. and the pressure stayed the same,also done same when performed compression test. I did take the ignition control module to auto zone and had it tested, as I said most of the parts were all ready bought. the only thing I have paid for was plug and plug wires, and alternator because it did test bad. I don't think the car is getting spark but what else can I test is it possibly the ecc or pcm ? I don't want to buy parts I don't need.Thanks

You need to perform tests #1 and #2.

This is the v 6 engine 3800, is there away to bypass the vos? I think thats what it is called, because it has new coil packs and the ignition control module was tested. This is the distributorless ignition system, and Thank you very much for your input

You need to finish testing as I asked.

If you have a security light on or flashing, let me know.

The security light goes out after the key is on for 20-25 seconds. May I get back with you later on the testing it is pouring the rain here right now. I did a fuel pressure test the other day and within 3-5 seconds the fuel pump motor stopped and I had like 45 - 48 psi, and after I turned the key off it stayed right there even after 15 minutes. I really appreciate your help I just can't test for spark right now. It is however slacking up so I may be able to here shortly. Thanks again

No problem, I'll be around when you get the info. We need some facts here about what works and what doesn't. I'm a little concerned about that security light though.
Let me know what the history is here. Did any modules, wiring or ignition switch get changed? How did all this start?

Hello, my name is Anthony; you was helping me earlier with the camaro. OK I'm not sure of what started the problems with this car. It wasn't running when I bought it. I did check for spark and it doesn't have any. As I said I did have the ign.control mod.tested at Autozone, and I know the guy put new coil packs,along with a lot of the other items I mentioned earlier.All I know about the car is he had replaced the timing chain and gears,crank sensor,cam sensor, the only things I changed was the plugs plug wires and the alternator. I had all the plugs out when I done a compression test so I went ahead and replaced them and the wires. I may be able to get a hold of the guy this afternoon when he gets off work. Thanks again for helping me

OK look, what you changed or checked means nothing right now. The way we resolve these things is we systematically isolate what function is missing before we go any further. I gave a you a list of specific things that I needed to know. Until you can give me definitive answers on ALL those tests and follow up with subsequent testing, I'm not going to be able to help you. I realize you have your own ideas and agenda but I'm not going to waste a lot of time that way.

OK I checked for spark and I have none, I checked the fuel pressure,I have 48 psi. The injectors have not been tested I don't have the noid light until I can get to town. Performed compression test again 185-190 on each cylinder. I'm not sure what else you are talking about. What else would you like for me to do?

1) Test for spark at the plug end of the wire using a spark tester. If none found, check for power supply on the + terminal of the coil with the key on.


2) Test for injector pulse using a small bulb called a noid light. If none found, check for power supply at one side of the injector with the key on.


You can get a noid light for less than $10 at most auto parts stores.

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OK ; I know that you are trying to help me and I really appreciate your help. However I do not want to waste your time or get you upset . I am not here to upset you or anyone else, and I apologize if I have. All I was saying was all that I have done, in hopes of that being able to give you a better idea of what is going on and what I've tried. I'm not trying to question your ethics or your intelligence. I would not ask for help or advise if it is going to get someone agitated with me. So please do forgive me if I said or done anything to offend you.

I'm not offended. I just don't want to continue wasting time with no results. We have a system to diagnose these things and I need answers to the questions I ask. If you don't have what you need, then you have to get it. I don't have a crystal ball and the tests have to be done by you or a repair shop your paying to do it. The "throw parts at it" method is not my method.

How would you like for me to test the coil packs, it has three because this is a distrbutorles .

The coils on this one are powered through the ignition module which is under the coils on the pink wire coming into it.

I agree with you and that's not my method either. The guy I bought the car from had already replaced everything all I replaced was the plugs plug wires and alternator because it was tested and was bad

The pink wire that comes into the ignition module does show positive . But I will check it again if need be.

Get all the results together and then tell me. Check everything twice to be sure.

I will double test everything you have listed and will submit the results later this afternoon. I will have to go to town and get a noid light. I have no problem doing what ever you want me to do and I will do them in the order you want me to do them. So I will get back with you later. Thanks again I will be a while because town is about 45 min. so probably 3-4 hrs. At this time I shall have all results.

Take a week if you want. I'll be available.

I was able to get a test light and one of the guys at Auto zone told me to take one of the coil packs off and ground the clip end and then turn the key on and see if it lit up. I did this and the test light did light up on one side. So I assume that it is getting power through it. Should I do this for each pack or is the one enough to tell you what you need to know. Also do I need to do a compression test on each cylinder again? I have done it once and each one held a steady reading of 180-190 after cranking the engine four rotations each.

No, you have already satisfied compression, fuel pressure and power to the coil. Now do the rest of it.

Hello , I just got a chance to get back with you. In the morning I will test the injectors and let you know whats happening at that point. We are still getting a lot of rain so I have been trying to do things in between showers. I am however going out right now and check for spark again, it may be easier to see with it being dark. This really does mean a lot to me and if I can pay you something I will do what I can. I think it's only fair to let you know that I live off of disability but I would pay you something for your help. Just let me know so I can see if I'll be able to give you something. Again Thank you for your time and your help.OK I just went outside and crank over the engine I had an old plug in one of the plugwire boot : I have no spark at all.

I'm not interested in your money. We are on the third page of this question and have not accomplished anything yet. Post back when you have all the results.

OK I rented the noid light today, when engine cranked over it did nothing. I also took a couple of plug wires off at the coil and cranked engine wile holding test light to one side and grounding the other end, still got nothing. So I took one coil pack off of the ignition module and put test light to it and it lights up on one side. I didn't check all three but I will if I need to. I hope this information helps in the diagnosis. Thank you Sir.

I don't know if you did so or not but you need to test for spark at the end of the plug wire to determine if any spark is there. You can't use a test light for that because it's 30,000 volts. The spark tester lets the spark jump without having to hold the wire. You also need to test for power with a test light at one side of the injector with the key on.

I tested for spark late yesterday evening, just before dark so it would be easier to see. I had no spark what so ever. I just tested the injector and one side does light up. OK I'm not sure if I hit the send button or not, so I'll try again. I don't have a spark tester but I can use an old plug that I took out of it; will this be sufficient ? If not I can pick up the tester tomorrow. If there is anything else I need to get just let me know.

OK, now what all these tests have told me is that you have power supply to these components but no reference signal from the PCM. The signal is supplied by the Crankshaft Position sensor. There is a good chance that the sensor itself is bad but there are also possibilities that it could be any of the related wiring or the PCM itself. I would visually look over the wiring to the Crank sensor for any damage. If none is found, it would be a reasonable risk to try a new Crank sensor. You would need a portable lab scope to be able to test it.

After replacing the sensor, you are supposed to perform a Crankshaft Learn procedure with a scan tool. You may not have to but if it runs but sets a code, you have to get it done.


The crankshaft position system variation compensating values are stored in the PCM non-volatile memory after a learn procedure has been performed. If the actual crankshaft position system variation does not match the crankshaft position system variation compensating values stored in the PCM, DTC P0300 may set (refer to Diagnostic Aids for DTC P0300).

The Crankshaft Position System Variation Learn Procedure should be performed it any of the following conditions are true:

* DTC P1336 is set.
* The PCM has been replaced.
* The PCM has been reprogrammed.
* The engine has been replaced.
* The crankshaft has been replaced.
* The crankshaft harmonic balancer has been replaced.
* The crankshaft position sensor has been replaced.

WARNING: Set the vehicle parking brake and block the drive wheels when preforming the Crankshaft Position System Variation Learning Procedure In order to prevent personal injury. Release the throttle immediately when the engine starts to decelerate. Once the learn procedure Is completed, the PCM will return the engine control to the operator and the engine will respond to the throttle position.

Important: Begin the crankshaft position system variation learn procedure with the ignition switch OFF. Do not turn ON the ignition switch or start the vehicle unless instructed to do so by the scan tool.

The scan tool crankshaft position system variation learn function will be inhibited if any powertrain DTCs other than DTC P1336 are set before or during the crankshaft position system variation learn procedure. Clear DTCs before attempting to perform the crankshaft position system variation learn procedure. If any DTCs reset, the DTCs must be diagnosed and repaired before the crankshaft position system variation learn procedure can be sucessfully completed.

The crankshaft position system variation learn function will be inhibited if the PCM detects a malfunction involving the camshaft position signal circuit, the 3X reference circuit, or the 18X reference circuit.

* If the scan tool indicates that a problem with the camshaft position signal exists, refer to DTC P0341 CMP Sensor Circuit Performance.
* If the scan tool indicates that a problem with the 3X crank signal exists, refer to DTC P1374 3X Reference Circuit.
* If the scan tool indicates that a problem with the 18X crank signal exists, refer to DTC P0836 18X Reference Signal Circuit.

The scan tool crankshaft position system variation learn function will not be enabled until engine coolant temperature is greater than 70 °C (158 °F). Selecting the crankshaft position system variation learn procedure on the scan tool will command the PCM to enable CKP system variation learn fuel cutoff and allow the crankshaft position system compensating values to be stored in the PCM. The PCM must detect an engine speed of 5150 RPM (CKP system variation learn fuel cutoff) during the crankshaft position system variation learn procedure to store the crankshaft position system compensating values and complete the procedure.

1. Set the parking brake.
2. Block the drive wheels.
3. Close the hood.
4. Start the engine and allow engine coolant temperature to reach at least 70 °C (158 °F).
5. Turn OFF the ignition switch.
6. Select and enable the crankshaft position variation learn procedure with the scan tool.
7. Start the vehicle
8. Ensure that the transaxle is in Park.
9. Apply the brake pedal firmly.
10. Increase accelerator pedal position until CKP system variation learn fuel cutoff is reached. CKP system variation learn fuel cutoff is reached at 5150 RPM. Immediately release the accelerator pedal when fuel cutoff is reached.
11. The crankshaft position system variation compensating values are learned when RPM decreases back to idle. If the procedure terminates, refer to Important above for instructions.
12. Observe DTC status for DTC P1336.
13. If the scan tool indicates that DTC P1336 ran and passed, the crankshaft position system variation learn procedure is complete. If the scan tool indicates DTC P1336 failed or not run, check for other DTCs. If no DTCs other than P1336 are set, repeat the crankshaft position system variation learn procedure as necessary.

Here's what I know the guy replaced the crank sensor, so just one question since I can't get it to start in order for it to learn should I have it put in a shop and fixed ? If so could you advise me with a round about estimate.
So I am not overcharged.

It should run without the learn procedure. There has to be a problem elsewhere in the circuit but it is pretty much confirmed that there is problem in the Crank sensor circuit somewhere. He may have even installed it wrong or something.

Your getting over your head here now. Most places will charge you about $100 for diagnostic but don't just look for the cheapest price because they likely don't know what they are doing.

You could try looking side the Crank Sensor plug and make sure he didn't bend the pins over.

Thank you for all your help, and advice. I kind of thought the same about shops. That's why I asked you.
Is it possible for it to not start because of the alternator, it was changed from a one wire to a two wire. I hope that I haven't been to much of a problem ;
if I was I apologize. But I do appreciate your help.

I would say no, the alternator couldn't do that but I have to say when someone starts modifying any wiring, you never know what else they disturbed in the process.

I don't mind helping. We could have gotten to this point a lot quicker but we got here anyway. Good luck.

Hello, I wanted to let you know I took the harmonic wheel balancer off unplugged the crank sensor and sure enough there was one pin inside that was bent over. I straightened out and put it all back together. It cranked over probably three turns and fired right up. I owe a lot of gratitude and appreciation to you for all your help. I don't think I ever got your name, but Thanks for helping me.

Really glad to hear you found the problem. Those pins bend very easily
You see now where I was going with all my testing

My name is Desi

Leaving positive feedback is appreciated

I don't really know about the point system, but the positive feedback was no problem. Thanks

Thank you.......... Good luck with your car.

I have been struggling with a 1994 GMC jimmy. The only thing wrong is the Idle it's as though it never warms up. My question is whether or not the idling can be adjusted. It runs good no signs of timing being out of adjustment it just idles high. It's not my vehicle it is a lady friend of mine. I told her that without your help my car would probably still be setting. You helped me on my 1998 Camaro, which by the way is running great. Thanks again for your help on that. Anyway if your not to busy and have any suggestions I would appreciate any help at all. It's a 4.3 vortec, I was thinking that it may be the throttle position sensor out of adjustment. But I wanted your professional advice before I tried anything. Thanks Desi

You really need to start a fresh question for that.