Anti-Theft System plus oddities?

2003 FORD MUSTANG
235,000 MILES • 3.8L • V6 • 2WD • AUTOMATIC
Avatar
DSCHWINDT
  • MEMBER
  • 49 POSTS
I will list the issues first and then go into detail:

1. Car turns over but doesn't start
2. Odometer reads only as dashes (e.g. --------------)
3. There is no OBD communication when trying to connect to the computer
4. When the key is turned to the ON position, a groaning sound comes from the passenger side of the vehicle. It sounds like it is coming from the front passenger wheel-well area.
5. When no key is inserted, the theft light blinks normally, every couple seconds. When I insert a key and turn it to the ON position, the theft light blinks rapidly.

Now, I will list the solutions I have attempted:

1. I checked the battery and it is healthy
2. A locksmith checked my key to ensure the chip was functioning
3. I tried every online PATS reset method that I could find. This, notably, has worked to fix this problem in the past (at least the no-start + groaning sound problem. I cannot remember if the odometer read dashes and I did not check the OBD connection the last couple times this problem occurred.) So, the PATS reset methods have worked to fix this problem 4-5 times over a few year stretch, but none of those methods works this time.


From what I have found online, it sounds like a problem with the immobilizer minus the groaning sound. I have not found anyone with the combination of issues I am having. This is all the information I can think to give you currently. Let me know if you need additional info. Thank you!
Sep 21, 2024 at 3:41 PM
Advertisement
Avatar
STRAILER
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 53,854 POSTS
Yep, the groans are different, can I get a short video of the noise, you can upload it with your response. I would start by checking all of the fuses with the system on.

This guide can help:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-a-car-fuse

The fact that the milage is dashes and no obd2 connection is telling us the dash cluster might be bad which is common with these issues. Here are the fuse locations. If the fuses are all good, I would remove the cluster and send it in for testing/repairs. Check out the images (below). Please let us know what happens.
Sep 22, 2024 at 10:49 AM
Avatar
DSCHWINDT
  • MEMBER
  • 49 POSTS
I have been busy the last couple days, so I haven’t been able to test all the ideas you sent yet. I plan to try them out on Wednesday. I have checked several fuses that I thought might be the problem, but I will go ahead and check all the ones you recommended.

Do I have to send in the cluster for repairs or could I find one at a salvage yard to use?

When you say, ‘Check the fuses with the system on’ do you mean turn the key to the ON position and then test the fuses? If so, what is the reason for this?
Sep 23, 2024 at 2:56 PM
Advertisement
Avatar
STRAILER
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 53,854 POSTS
Thanks for the video. can you put your hand on where the noise is coming from? It sounds like a relay is shorting out, we must find out what is making the noise. For the fuse testing, it is to use a test light to see if the fuse is good and that is has power as well. Could it be the blower fan motor making the noise? Please let me know, I am interested.
Sep 24, 2024 at 12:24 PM
Avatar
DSCHWINDT
  • MEMBER
  • 49 POSTS
This seems to be where the noise is coming from. The closeup photo is of the component that seems to be making the noise. When I touch it I feel a vibration, so it makes sense if the noise is also coming from it. Any idea what that component is?
Sep 24, 2024 at 3:04 PM
Avatar
DSCHWINDT
  • MEMBER
  • 49 POSTS
So, I tested my fuses and most of the fuses lit up the tester bulb on both contacts of the fuse, and a few of the fuses didn't light up the bulb on either contact. Also, big development! When I went to test my fuses, I turned the key to the ON position, and everything was happening as usual for the first few seconds. Then I noticed the buzzing sound stopped. So, I tried turning the car on, and it started up and it ran for several minutes until I shut it off. This has happened in the past where the problem seemingly goes away for no reason. So, my problem is not fixed as nothing has changed to have caused a fix, but perhaps this new development will help us figure out the problem.
Sep 25, 2024 at 5:06 PM
Avatar
STRAILER
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 53,854 POSTS
Okay, we are getting closer, the part that is making the noise is the constant control relay which houses the fuel pump and PCM power relays, I would try to get a replacement to see if that makes a difference. Here is a wiring diagram so you can see how it works and which wires to get for power and guide, this guide can help:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-test-light-circuit-tester

Check out the images (below). Please let us know what happens.
Sep 26, 2024 at 11:39 AM
Avatar
DSCHWINDT
  • MEMBER
  • 49 POSTS
Here is a photo I took of the CCRM, and I noticed there is an electrical plug that is hanging loose and not connected to anything. I can't find anything that it could connect to. Any idea what this plug goes to, and could it be the source of the problem?

Also, thank you for the wiring diagram of the CCRM. I am guessing power should be present at pin 11 on the CCRM at all times, but what would cause the fuel pump/pcm power relays to switch over to pins 5 and 24 respectively? Is power supposed to be present at pins 5 and 24 once I turn the key to the ON position?
Sep 28, 2024 at 12:59 PM
Avatar
STRAILER
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 53,854 POSTS
I don't see the images? Also, I had a thought that the engine to chassis ground could be bad or not connected. I would check the ground from the battery to the engine and then to the chassis. This must be a good connection or you will have strange problems like this.
Sep 29, 2024 at 9:40 AM
Avatar
DSCHWINDT
  • MEMBER
  • 49 POSTS
I apologize. I guess I forgot to add the photo. Here it is.
Sep 29, 2024 at 10:51 AM
Avatar
STRAILER
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 53,854 POSTS
Yep, this is it, which it looks like it could have water damage, what happens when you replace it, also did you check the grounds form the battery to the engine and chassis?
Sep 30, 2024 at 9:38 AM
Avatar
DSCHWINDT
  • MEMBER
  • 49 POSTS
I checked this ground, and it was very dirty so I cleaned it. Is this the correct ground you wanted me to check?

I disconnected the ground completely and turned the key to the On position, and the car reacted in a unique way (unlike the problem I’ve been having), so that makes me think the ground isn’t the problem unless that was the wrong ground I checked.
Oct 10, 2024 at 11:19 AM
Avatar
STRAILER
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 53,854 POSTS
Yes, that is the main ground, I would remove it and clean it with a wire brush, it should be clean metal to clean metal. Let me know what happens.
Oct 10, 2024 at 12:05 PM
Avatar
DSCHWINDT
  • MEMBER
  • 49 POSTS
Okay, I removed the ground and cleaned it well. I am still concerned about this connector in the photo though. Do you know the purpose of this connector and what it should be connected to?
Oct 12, 2024 at 8:25 AM
Avatar
DSCHWINDT
  • MEMBER
  • 49 POSTS
I found a replacement constant control relay at a salvage yard and replaced mine. The exact same problems are occurring including the buzzing sound coming from the new relay.

The relay is from a salvage yard, so it’s possible that this relay also is malfunctioning, but it seems unlikely they both have the exact same problem, yeah? Any ideas?
Oct 12, 2024 at 2:48 PM
Avatar
STRAILER
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 53,854 POSTS
I don't think the replacement is bad in the same way, it sounds more like a ground issue or something plugged into the CCRM is shorted. Let's unplug the CCMR and check the blk/wht wire for ground by using this guide. It must be unplugged to do the test.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-test-light-circuit-tester

Please go over this guide and get back to us.
Oct 13, 2024 at 9:14 AM
Avatar
DSCHWINDT
  • MEMBER
  • 49 POSTS
I tested the ground on pins 15 and 18 (pin 15 is the black and white wire). Pin 18 ground is fine, but the black/white ground is not. Do I need to replace that wire or something?
Oct 17, 2024 at 6:25 PM
Avatar
STRAILER
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 53,854 POSTS
Both black wires to the CCRM should be grounded. If not, run new grounds and try it to see what happens.
Oct 18, 2024 at 11:09 AM
Avatar
DSCHWINDT
  • MEMBER
  • 49 POSTS
Alright, I ran a ground test on both ground pins (15 and 18) and both tested as a good ground. The problem remains the same though. Any other ideas?
Oct 19, 2024 at 2:31 PM
Avatar
DSCHWINDT
  • MEMBER
  • 49 POSTS
I also ran some continuity checks from pin 15, and I confirmed continuity at the ground (red) by the headlight and also at a pin in the disconnect box (blue) close to the hood hinge. Not sure if that is helpful but thought I'd mention it.
Oct 19, 2024 at 2:42 PM
Avatar
STRAILER
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 53,854 POSTS
You must have a power wire from the CCRM that is getting grounded or something is shorted out like the fuel pump. Lets unplug the engine computer and see if the noise goes away, you might have short fuel injector causing the issues. Here is the location. Check out the images (below). Let us know what you find.

Oct 20, 2024 at 10:03 AM
Avatar
DSCHWINDT
  • MEMBER
  • 49 POSTS
Pin 12 on the CCRM is supposed to have power when the key is on but it does not. Pin 12 does come from the PCM, so I took off the PCM to test the wire that runs to pin 12. This wire showed connectivity and less than one ohm of resistance. So, pin 12 should be getting power from the PCM, but it is not. I can check later if the noise goes away when the PCM is disconnected.
Oct 26, 2024 at 11:30 AM
Avatar
STRAILER
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 53,854 POSTS
That would be great that way we can know if something is shorted like an injector or ignition coil.
Oct 27, 2024 at 11:10 AM
Avatar
DSCHWINDT
  • MEMBER
  • 49 POSTS
So, I tested the car with and without the PCM tonight, and with the PCM all the issues are the same as they've been. Once I disconnected the PCM, there was a sound coming from the engine bay that sounded like fans turning on, but the CCRM made no noise at all.
Oct 28, 2024 at 5:14 PM
Avatar
STRAILER
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 53,854 POSTS
So the CCRM stopped making noise with the PCM disconnected?
Oct 29, 2024 at 10:58 AM
Avatar
DSCHWINDT
  • MEMBER
  • 49 POSTS
Correct. The CCRM only makes noise when the PCM is connected, and I turn the key to the ON position.
Oct 29, 2024 at 11:33 AM
Avatar
DSCHWINDT
  • MEMBER
  • 49 POSTS
I am confused why the CCRM would be buzzing/vibrating if an injector or fuel pump is grounded. Is that possible?
Oct 29, 2024 at 3:35 PM
Avatar
DSCHWINDT
  • MEMBER
  • 49 POSTS
Any thoughts?
Nov 2, 2024 at 3:45 PM
Avatar
STRAILER
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 53,854 POSTS
Yes, when the CCRM is buzzing start disconnect sensors, fuel injectors, the fuel pump and coils until the noise stops and then you have found the problem.
Nov 3, 2024 at 11:14 AM
Avatar
DSCHWINDT
  • MEMBER
  • 49 POSTS
Okay. I turned the key, the CCRM began buzzing, and I was about to disconnect a fuel injector, and then I heard a click and the buzzing stopped. I then tried to turn on the car and it fired right up. This is a recurring theme where the problem is intermittent, and then I can't troubleshoot because the problem isn't manifesting itself. Just informing you in case this helps isolate the problem, but I will try to get the problem to reoccur so I can troubleshoot.
Nov 5, 2024 at 3:32 PM
Avatar
DSCHWINDT
  • MEMBER
  • 49 POSTS
Alright, I got the CCRM buzzing again. I unplugged the fuel pump fuse, and the buzzing remained. Is that sufficient for 'disconnecting the fuel pump' or do I need to do something else? Also, it seems like the fuel injectors are inaccessible without taking apart some of the engine. Does that sound correct? I also disconnected some sensors, but I don't know all the sensors I may need to check.
Nov 6, 2024 at 3:42 PM
Avatar
STRAILER
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 53,854 POSTS
Yes, we need to keep unplugging sensor like the oxygens sensor and ignition coils with the key on until the buzzing stops.
Nov 7, 2024 at 5:22 PM
Avatar
DSCHWINDT
  • MEMBER
  • 49 POSTS
I forgot to inform you that I found the problem. It was indeed a loose ground wire, but because it was loose it would alter between being grounded and not being grounded. When I checked the grounds, I only checked them electrically (and at that moment the loose wire was grounded). I should have checked them all by wiggling them to see how tight they are. To be clear, it was one of the grounds right on front of the battery. Thank you for your help! Your guidance is much appreciated.
Dec 7, 2024 at 9:00 AM
Avatar
STRAILER
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 53,854 POSTS
Glad you could get it fixed, thanks for letting us know. Please use 2CarPros anytime we are here to help.
Dec 7, 2024 at 12:33 PM