Rough idle ?

1991 ACURA INTEGRA
220,000 MILES • 4 CYL • FWD • MANUAL
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TRISTANB
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I bought the car with no airbox, 02 sensor, or muffler. The exhaust smelled of unburned fuel and the idle was low rough and choppy, the ECU was showing codes1 and 43. I have put a new intake pipe and filter and put in an O2 sensor. The idle has gotten a little better and so has the performance, the code 1 is gone.

I still have a code 43, rough idle when the engine is cold. When the engine is warm it does one of these two things

1. surges to about 1700RPM then drops to about 1100RPM, repeat... etc

2. Idles high at about 1700RPM until a CEL comes on and drops dow to about 11-1200RPM and holds steady.

The car has also started dieseling when I shut off the engine.

Here are links to videos that show the idle when cold and the idle surging

http://s301.photobucket.com/albums/nn58/tristanboyd/?action=view¤t=1104090951-00.flv

http://s301.photobucket.com/albums/nn58/tristanboyd/?action=view¤t=1103091653-00.flv


:::EDIT::: Since this post I have taken apart, cleaned, and reinstalled the FITV and the surging has gotten just a little better... other syptoms still exist, crappy quality idle, etc.
Nov 4, 2009 at 2:37 PM
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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That is a bad idle. Have you checked timing? Knock sensor? Vacuum leaks? TPS / MAF sensor? EGR? It's acting like either the timing is out or there is a problem with the throttle position sensor.

Let me know.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:05 AM
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TRISTANB
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I've checked for vacuum leaks and have even replaced a few lines, it looks like the previous owner did the same. I did bump the timing a little to see if it would help, and it did but only a little. I'll get a little more accurate on the timing when I get my hands on my timing gun tomorrow. I don't think this car has a knock sensor, I could be wrong, i can't seem to find anything in my chiltons about it and think, not sure but think that the integras with the b18a1 engines didn't have a knock sensor.

I know how to test TPS on a GM vehicle but not a honda.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:05 AM
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Let me know what you find when you get the timing light.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:05 AM
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TRISTANB
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I will do that.

btw: I just took off the IAC and cleaned it out and reinstalled it, a little improvement but not much. Its still missing and stuff but a little better.

I cleaned the FITV and IAC as per a ton of right ups on several forums about some of the same issues. again it helped a little but hasn't solved the problem, I'll reply when I get the timing to specs tomorrow.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:05 AM
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TRISTANB
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I checked the timing as per my Chilton's and I could not see the timing marks on the crankshaft pulley at all, so I put it where it sounded best and then backed it off a tad. I rechecked for vacuum leaks and could not find any and I fixed a few spots that one could question. The worst part is the missing until it heats up to full operating temp. A few people on the forums are have suggested the distributor if cleaning those parts didn't do it, but the distributor is brand new. I didn't throw any codes today. Any ideas?
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:05 AM
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Well it's good that it didn't give any codes today. You may need to get down under the car and check the crank for timing marks. I always draw a white line on it with chalk so I can see it better.

As far as the idle, did I mention checking the EGR? Also, one way to check for a vacuum leak (I don't like doing it) is spraying starting fluid around the hoses. If there is a leak, the engine will suck in the starting fluid and the RPM's will increase. I hate doing it because if you hit a spot on the engine that is hot enough, it can catch fire. If you want to try it, make sure you have a fire extinguisher near by.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:05 AM
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TRISTANB
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Thats how I did it except I used carb cleaner and listened for a drop in RPM, I'm very weary about the starting fluid for the same reason you said plus I know that stuff can be very dangerous to an engine if it sucks up too much. When I go on lunch tomorrow I'll check again for timings marks, it'll be daylight so maybe I can at least find the grooves and mark them like you said. I know the EGR can cause crappy mileage but can it cause missing too? I've had my ups and downs with EGR on the Fiero's I used to have. I'll try to get some more video of how the cold idle is now so we have something to compare progress to.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:05 AM
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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I'll be waiting.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:05 AM
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TRISTANB
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cold idle this morning... this is the first time it has actually died during cold idle
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:05 AM
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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When you rev it, it sounds good. Listening to it, it sounds like a timing issue. I can't remember if I asked you to check the EGR. The valve could be stuck causing a problem.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:05 AM
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TRISTANB
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It'd be nice if that was all it was, I've tried the timing in a few different spots and nothing, i still can't find the marks on the pulley. The best the car has sounded was when the distributor was turned to its max counter-clockwise. I want to check out the EGR but I do not know where it is located on this car and the Chilton's isn't any help at all in finding it.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:05 AM
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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It should be on the intake manifold. As far as the timing, if it ran its best when you had the distributor turned as far as it would go, it sounds like the timing belt may have jumped a tooth.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:05 AM
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TRISTANB
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I'll pull the cover off and check, i know the belt was recently replaced. I think I know what the egr is and i think its working, i unplugged and plugged in the vacuum line from it and had a huge change in rpm and so on.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:05 AM
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TRISTANB
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Cam gears are still perfectly lined up and so on. I put the distributor on my friends accord a while back and his car was the same way, ran best turned the whole way.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:05 AM
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Did you get a rebuilt distributor? Used units can be bad.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:05 AM
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TRISTANB
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I didn't put this one on so i'm not sure, i know when i did my friends accord the distributor didn't have teeth, it was more like two prongs ont the bottom of the shaft that just kinda plugged in so it was either on or 180 off. so here an update:

I found the markings on the pulley so i put some white paint on them, i'll check the timing in a few minutes.

Runs like crap and misses horrible until 100% operating temp

did get code 43 today (maybe didn't sit in traffic long enough yesterday) It idles a little high until the CEL comes on then the idle instantly drops.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:05 AM
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TRISTANB
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I just went out to check the timing and etiher something is installed incorrectly or the jumper that I'm supposed to put into the gray plug under the dash isn't doing anything at all. I say this because I didn't see my paint marks at all. Ideas?
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:05 AM
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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I know I could be wrong, but I still say the timing is out. If it runs its best when the distributor is turned all the way, either the it's out 180 or something has happened with the belt. You should be able to see your timing marks.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:06 AM
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TRISTANB
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Update, did some research, there is no way that the distributor is going on that car incorrectly which leads me to believe that the crank pulley was put on wrong.

I did a drop cylinder test and there was very little difference when I pulled the cyl 4 plug wire. I followed by pulling the plugs and they were covered in black soot.

Following that I did a compression test.

1. 230
2. 230
3. 220
4. 220

cleaned the plugs with a wire wheel, reinstalled and drove. seemed better at first
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:06 AM
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Wow! They look bad. I would say they are fouled from too much fuel. We've been too talking for awhile now, and I can remember asking if you checked the temp sensor.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:06 AM
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TRISTANB
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that was my next guess... I had a similar problem with a fiero a few years ago, a temp sensor went bad and was telling the ECU that it was constantly at a -40 degrees and was just dumping gas into it. I just don't know whcih temp sensor it is on this car sense im not familiar with Hondas... I can tell you that the gauge and fans are working properly.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:06 AM
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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The temp sending unit takes care of that. There is an ambient temp sensor that tells the computer the outside temp. It could be doing what your Fiero did.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:06 AM
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TRISTANB
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I got the coolant temp sensor replaced tonight and I've seen a nice improvement, I'll know more in the morning after it sits overnight... I am back to surging though, gotta get that figured out.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:06 AM
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Does it seem to run a lot better?
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:06 AM
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TRISTANB
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Overall it seems to be running better, still had some trouble starting and the initial idle was rough but it caught itself and and got better quickly. Still surging a lot though.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:06 AM
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TRISTANB
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i noticed its still idling a little high so i let it get to operating temp and adjust the idle as per chiltons and now it won't catch an idle cold, i'm wondering if the fast idle or whatever controls the cold idle is bad
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:06 AM
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CONSIDIOUS
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I know my 1994 acura integra had AWEFUL idling when i first got it. it wouldnt idle, without my foot on the gas at all times. It may not apply here, but a valve adjustment, and a new air filter did wonders for me. could be short valve clearance.
Oct 5, 2020 at 11:06 AM