Runs very rough, multiple codes

Good afternoon

The evap codes have nothing to do with the missfire.

If you have low fuel pressure, I would replace the fuel pump. low fuel pressure will cause the 1273 issue.

Roy

447

P0447
Descriptor
Probable Causes
Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Canister Vent Control Valve

One thing i forgot to mention is it has a really bad exhaust leak at the Y pipe. car was pretty low on gas and just filled it up with a gas can and it still misfires. car starts right up. do you still think its the fuel pump?

You need to check the actual fuel pressure before assuming it is bad.

once you confirm it then you can replace it.

Roy

So I tested the fuel pressure and at idle it is running at 51 psi with the needle bouncing back and forward about 2 psi. Also, when I blip the throttle it does not rise at all nor does it drop. When I shut off the car it drops to zero in roughly two seconds. I do not think I saw any visual leaks in the lines leading back to the gas tank or around the injectors. Also when it starts to bog down the fuel pressure is still at 51 psi. Also thank you for your help so far.

Okay, thanks. you have a bad fuel pump for two reasons.

1. The pressure should always remain steady at all times.

2. The fact it goes to 0 when you turn it off tells me the check valve in the pump is no good.

Roy

So I finally got around to replacing the fuel pump. Runs at about 55psi. I do not remember if it dropped to zero real fast or not. It runs a lot better but I still have the problem where it bogs down but not nearly as bad or as long. It is intermittent and only last for a few seconds and is pretty light but happens quit a bit. Also, when I rev it it does not seem to have an issue and when it is idling when I rev it seems to sort of help the issue. And it seems like it is more in the lower rpm range. I tried to get as much air out as I could. Could air in the line from the replacement cause it or am I looking at something else to check out? Side note: Just went back out to drive around hoping it is just air in the line. It would go to run then shut off every time I start it unless I would give it gas when I started it. After that it would idle fine. I low key kind of think my new pump might be a dud.

No to the air.

The next step I would suggest is to have the injectors professionally cleaned to get the spray patterns correct. Additives have no effect on the injectors at all.

Roy

What about how it has issues starting now? Bad pump?

Very possible. Recheck it again to be sure.

Could also be the injectors as well.

Roy

Okay, so I got the injectors out and cleaned them. They all seem to have a very good spray pattern. They all test within 15.3-15.6 ohms. I did not have the light bulb tool to test the electric current. It is cold outside, about 26 F. Car seemed to run just fine, even smoother than before and had more get up and go power too. Drove around different speeds and throttle input with zero hiccups. Went on about a twenty mile round trip for food. About two to three miles to go it had the same issue but not nearly as bad and seemed to only do it when I gave it throttle. Also, after the car is warmed up it does not like to start unless I give it some throttle which I think might be the fuel pump. I have no idea when and or if my dad ever replaced the fuel injectors (252,000 miles). If he did than only once. When I cleaned them I used a 9 volt battery and carburetor cleaner. I back flushed them first. They all had good spray patterns and seemed to open and close just fine without leaking. Even though they seemed to test fine could they still be warn out enough to cause issues when it is warmer weather but do fine when it is cold? Or could there be something else? Again thank you for your help.

Did you recheck the pump pressure?

Roy

No.

You need to do this. It needs to be done to verify sufficient fuel is being supplied to the fuel system.

Roy

So I did the most comprehensive fuel pressure test I could and I apologize because this might be long. It is 40F outside. Also for the first part of this the car was running perfect. When I first started (cold engine) it took about five seconds for the fuel pressure to reach 55psi with I believe just the ignition on. Turned it on (fired right up and ran at 55psi) and after I turned it off it dropped to 31psi in about 0.5 seconds then it took five seconds to drop to 29psi then dropped 1psi per ten seconds. I let the car idle and warm up. Shut it off and it dropped to 31psi. When I went to go turn it on the fuel pressure would rise and the car would shut off at 40psi and the pump would kick off at 48psi. With the fuel purged and sitting at 0psi it took five cranks to get the fuel pressure up to 50-55psi and I would still have to give it a little throttle for a second to stay on. Also, when I turned the ignition on the fuel pressure would go up like 20psi each time then start to drop. Hence the five cranks. There is a noise (for a while) that sounds like a fuel injector tick but louder so I unplugged each injector one at a time and the noise stayed there and the car slowed the same amount for all four injectors. Then I jerry-rigged it all up and drove around to try and get it to bog down (top speed was 60mph). After about twenty minutes driving up and down the same road I stopped and shut off the car and one time I tried turning it on right after I turned it off. Dropped to 52psi (was off just for a split second) and tried to start and it still would not start unless I gave in a second of gas. And when I turned it off and sat in stayed at 34psi for two minutes before I drove off. After another ten minutes it still ran fine. Decided to unhook the fuel pressure gauge and closed my hood properly and drove the exact route I did last time when I got food. Also I drove about 70mph for the most off it cause of a long straight away. On the way back about 0.5 of a mile before the exact spot it had issues last time it started to bog down (finally). Pulled into a closed gas station and hooked up the gauge. The needle was bouncing from 52-58psi fast. When I would put it in drive (automatic) it would drop to 48psi for a split second then go back to 52-58psi bounce. When I drove it ten to fifteen mph (hood was wide open) and gave it gas it would still bog down really bad but fuel pressure stayed at about 55psi with a small bounce. Stopped and turned it off. Took about fifteen seconds to drop to 0psi. When I went to turn it on it jumped to 55psi and and jumped to 30psi then slowly went up. It sill needed a bit of gas to get going. After all of it I unhooked the gauge from the T insert while it was running so naturally it purged a good amount of fuel (had rags). And then magically it idled fine and I drove home like there was never an issue.

Okay, all the signs of a bad fuel pump.

Roy

Removal and Installation


1. Release the fuel pressure from the fuel line.
Refer to "FUEL PRESSURE RELEASE" [QG18DE (ULEV)], "FUEL PRESSURE RELEASE" [QG18DE (SULEV)], "FUEL PRESSURE RELEASE" (QR25DE).
2. Disconnect the battery ground cable.
3. Open the fuel filler lid and filler cap.
4. Remove the rear seat cushion. Refer to Seats; "Removal and Installation".


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5. Remove the inspection hole cover located under the rear seat cushion.


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6. Disconnect the fuel pump assembly electrical connector.


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7. Disconnect the fuel feed hose quick connector as follows:
a. Align the mating marks on the fuel pump outlet and the quick connector.
b. Hold the quick connector and push in the tabs, then pull out from the fuel pump outlet that is inserted in the quick connector.

CAUTION:
- The quick connector can be removed when the tabs are completely depressed. Do not twist the fuel hose more than necessary.
- Do not use any tools to remove the quick connector.

8. Remove the six retainer ring screws.

Welp. I replaced the fuel pump with a Bosch this time. I still have the same problems except the fuel pressure stays looking nice. It runs about 54psi when I rev it compensates like it should. When it misfires it does not drop any psi and when I rev it it does not drop either. So my last pump was bad. So quick recap. Starts right up and runs fine while cold. Once warmed up it misfires/bogs down. Does not like to start when already warm without some slight assistance. Seems to struggle more when I put it in drive (under load). My next guess would be the throttle position sensor or a bad coil pack. I do not have a manual throttle body so I cannot just unplug the TPS to see if it runs fine. I did unplug the MAF while it was running and it died real quick. I also opened the air filter box and it was spotless (looked brand new still) and the MAF looked spotless too.

The next step is to get a back pressure gauge to determine if the exhaust is clogged not allowing the engine to breather. You can get one at a parts store and you install it where the upstream O2 sensor is located. If you have more than 1.5 lbs of pressure, the catalytic converter is clogged and has to be replaced.

Roy

But I have had an exhaust leak for a couple years and it straight up broke one foot from the Y pipe almost a year ago. I do not see how it would take this long to cause problems.

Is it before or after the catalytic converter?

After. I guess roughly two to three feet after it. It is right after the flex pipe.

Okay, if the catalytic converter is clogged the leak at that point has no effect on it.

You still need to check the catalytic converter for being clogged.

Roy