Cam shaft chain roller Number

1999 VOLKSWAGEN PASSAT
172,000 MILES
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HAMBONE31
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Bought car at a good price because OBD codes kept comming up and runnabillity problems. Took off valve covers to check settings out and found the number of chain rollers between notches on gears of the DOHC 2.8L motor, Bank1 and Bank2, were not correct according to repair manual. Set at 16 rollers and closed up. When I started car 3 codes came up,both cam shaft sensors poen curcuit to Bat. and Engine position sensor. I knew Engine position was ok because ignition system was working even though it was running rough. Disconnected neg. bat. cable and quit for the night. Next mourning started car and only 1 code lit up,Cam sensor Bank2 open curcuit. Cleared code 2 more times then replaced sensor. After replacing sensor car will not run now,rough or at all, will not start now . HELP
Jul 16, 2012 at 6:09 PM
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MHPAUTOS
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Sounds as if the valve timing is out, have you checked this using your manual as yet?
Jul 17, 2012 at 8:01 AM
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HAMBONE31
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yes, timed with Bar & TDC pin. Dbl checked twice on timing and chain rollers are at 16 between cam shaft gears
Jul 17, 2012 at 12:12 PM
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HAMBONE31
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I'm thinking electrical but don't know where to start. can anyone help me on this, there is a cookie in it for you if you can.
Jul 17, 2012 at 6:54 PM
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RIVERMIKERAT
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Knowing what codes its throwing might prove very helpful to us. Check continuity between the cam sensor, power, ground, and the ECM. Also make sure it's properly seated.
Jul 20, 2012 at 3:58 PM
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EXOVCDS
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I would first check to see if crank & both cam sensor are in sync
via a scope... or at least producing a signal.

A running compression test (or just cranking) with an ignition signal
sync of one cylinder, can tell you if your cam/crank timing is out.

http://www.autonerdz.com/wps500.html

Not much that can be done over the internet...

Good luck,

Thomas
Jul 20, 2012 at 10:03 PM
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HAMBONE31
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Thanks all, did a trigger signal test for the coil and had one, manual stated if signal was present, engine speed sensor, camshaft position sensor and ECM were operating as they should. It stated that after any major overhaul the camshaft sensors need to be syncronized, anyone know what or how this is achieved?
I thought with cam timing bar and TDC pin used, syncronizing was completed, am I wrong to assume this?
Also when it quit starting, the starter turns motor over but it seems to be dragging even with new battery and jumped by another vehicle. This began right after I was trying to start the engine earlier, the oil idiot light began to blink on instrument panel. Any comments on this should be helpful.
Jul 21, 2012 at 1:28 PM
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EXOVCDS
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Can sensors are hard mounted... no adjustment. Yes, the lock bar should have taken care of the sync.

Did you have the cam sprockets loose when adjusting the belt? Did you tighten them after? The sprockets could have spun and the cams are now out of sync again?

The oil light will blink after extended crank.. this is normal

Thomas
Jul 21, 2012 at 4:17 PM
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RIVERMIKERAT
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It definitely sounds like the valve timing is still out. The dragging condition you describe happens when that's the case.
Jul 21, 2012 at 4:59 PM
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EXOVCDS
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Are the cam sensor shutter wheels installed correctly?

Thomas
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Jul 21, 2012 at 5:06 PM
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HAMBONE31
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Thanks again all, Have checked valve timing with bar and TDC pin again, everything was in sync. Will check reluctor ring on cam sensors, good to know about oil light also. Would like to check relays but don't know which one controls what, need help with this if anyone can. They are numbered and that's all I know.
Jul 22, 2012 at 10:49 PM
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HAMBONE31
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Is there any other way to check valve timing than with chain roller count,TDC pin inserted in crank and use of cam timing bar? Please inform me if there is so I can check that too. Also ran compress text on all cylinders and all passed.
Jul 22, 2012 at 11:03 PM
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EXOVCDS
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If you have spark, spray some gas/propane down the intake... to at
least see if she will run like that (which will confirm belt/cam/crank
timing is OK).

Thomas
Jul 22, 2012 at 11:30 PM
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RIVERMIKERAT
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Well, I'd upload the schematics for the engine performance, but our reference material isn't letting me see them. Again.
Jul 22, 2012 at 11:31 PM
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VWSCOTT
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passenger side tensioner 16 rollers. driver's side 15 rollers.had that same issue once then discovered this, it corrected the issue.
Jul 24, 2012 at 10:36 PM
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RIVERMIKERAT
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Thanks for the heads up vwscott. Hopefully it helps Hambone figure out and fix his problem. I'm still having problems getting schematics to load from our online reference.
Jul 25, 2012 at 12:56 AM
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HAMBONE31
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Thanks, will try this and see
Jul 25, 2012 at 2:10 AM
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HAMBONE31
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I was thinking about the rollers and the driver side was at 15, pass. side at 14. Went with manual on 16 both sides. That's just not right for them to do that or at least they could update manual. Hope you didn't get teed-off as bad as I've been Scott, but if it works I'm very glad you worked through it. I was beginning to have doubts in my ability to fix things. Just kidding, I still believe if I can't fix it someone knows how, just have to find them.
Jul 25, 2012 at 2:33 AM
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HAMBONE31
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If you get the schematics to load rivermikerat, Please load them ,I would like like to have them for future problems. Thanks
Jul 25, 2012 at 2:37 AM
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RIVERMIKERAT
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And here they are. Finally.
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Jul 25, 2012 at 2:46 AM
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VWSCOTT
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Hopefully you didn't get the cams too far out of time. I think the driver side is upside down to the passenger side. The cam gear may point a roller as u count them - one cam usually does, even tho it's technically not all the way in it's still counted. Good luck!
Jul 25, 2012 at 2:47 AM
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HAMBONE31
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Thanks for the schematics and heads up on rollers. took a couple of days off but ready to start back on it. Hope I fix it now
Jul 28, 2012 at 9:46 AM
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RIVERMIKERAT
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So do we Hambone! Let us know how it goes! We'll be here if you need anything else.
Jul 28, 2012 at 4:47 PM
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VWSCOTT
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I ama VW certified tech. I just replaced a v6 cam tensioner on the drivers side (bank 2). This one required 16 rollers. Not sure if it has to do with auto or manual trans? This is a prime example of why I do not consider myself as an expert. If 15 rollers don't fix it, try 16. Sorry to unintentionally misleading anyone.
Aug 3, 2012 at 5:34 PM
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EXOVCDS
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I thought the 4.2 V8 was the one that had the 15/16 split.

It should at least run rough with the cams slightly off... if no
hint of wanting to run... then ignition or fuel.

Thomas
Aug 3, 2012 at 5:44 PM
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VWSCOTT
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I just know I had 1 that took 15 rollers even tho it said 16. Now I have 1 now I did exactly the same way and the exhaust cam valves too early. I am not getting misfires but the exhaust valves coz a patter in the tail pipe and runs rough. P1392 is the code. I used my experience coz its such a pain on this tensioner, I've ran across several short comings with vesis over the years.
Aug 3, 2012 at 5:55 PM
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RIVERMIKERAT
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It's weird. I used to own a 79 Mustang with the 2.3L inline four. When changing the timing belt, you had to advance the crank timing 2 teeth in order for it to want to run. Even if the belt was just being changed as a matter of maintenance. Same thing with my 99 1.9L Escort.
Aug 3, 2012 at 6:16 PM
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VWSCOTT
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In 2000 I had a 1.8 passat come in with a bad cam tensioner. Vesis said 17 rollers. I had to r&r that head 3 times to find it took 16. I argued with the instructor at VW learning center over it. He swore vesis was correct. Several classes later he came clean and said it was incorrect and it had been corrected in vesis. Then I get a v6 calling for 16 rollers that actually took 15..... now I have another v6 that requires 16. All I can say is use the 16 and see, u may havta go 15. All I can say is good luck, and curious to know how many rollers it will take..
Aug 3, 2012 at 6:27 PM
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HAMBONE31
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Got the Passat running,,YAAA-WHOO. Thanks for all the help people. It took 16 rollers both sides,but driver side by sight,was 15 3/4. Did not look right but it worked. Passat is running like a VW again.
Aug 3, 2012 at 9:13 PM
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VWSCOTT
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Glad to hear it! Congratulations
Aug 3, 2012 at 9:18 PM
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RIVERMIKERAT
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Thanks for letting us know Hambone! Congrats!
Aug 4, 2012 at 5:06 PM