98 Sable Engine Quit at 45mph/can restart 2hrs later?

CHECK ENGINE LIGHT ON?...YES?...TAKE IT TO A POPULAR AUTO PARTS STORE, THEY WILL USUALLY GET YOUR CODES FOR FREE---MIGHT EVEN GIVE YOU FIX SUGGESTIONS--REGARDLESS, WRITE 'EM DOWN, GIVE 'EM TO US TOO

I MAY NOT BE YOUR FIX, BUT OTHERS WHO UNDERSTAND THIS NEW STUFF, MAY JUMP IN AND ASSIST.

I'M MORE OF AN OLD JEEP OLD FORD BUFF...BUT I DO READ A LOT COMING THRU HERE!

WITHOUT FURTHER TESTING, IF I HAD TO ATTEMPT TO THROW A PART AT IT, SOLELY BASED, ON WHAT YOU HAVE GIVEN THUS FAR....

I'D GUESS THE "CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR"---IT SEEMS TO BE A COMMON THING TO GO OUT, ON SOME VEHICLES

IF EZiLY ACCESSED, JUST ONE FASTENER HOLDS MOST OF 'EM IN PLACE....USUALLY A "CORRECT SPICING DEVICE" IS ON 'EM (PAPER OR PLASTIC) SHOULD REMAIN ON DURING INSTALLATION.....PARTS STORE FELLERS CAN PROBABLY TELL YOU...AROUND HERE, THEY MIGHT EVEN STICK IT ON FOR YOU!....$24 PART...INSTALL FREE....YOUR SMILE...PRICELESS!

LIKE I SAID, SORTA JUST A QUICK, SHOT IN THE DARK.......IF NOTHING ELSE, $24 IN YOUR GLOVE BOX, AND A WRENCH....ROADSIDE SWAP....EITHER IT WORKS, OR YOU NOW HAVE A SPARE, AND A NEW, PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE PART.....MIGHT OUT WEIGH A TOW BILL


HANG AROUND A WHILE, MAYBE ANOTHER OPINION WILL SURFACE

SURF OUR SITE

THE MEDIC

Hi CJ Medevac,
Thanks a lot for this quick response. When my engine is off but the key is "keyed" (on) ... the check eng. light is lit up along with some others but when the engine starts they all dis-engage from luminous. Not sure what the 'crank shaft position-er' is .. or where it is located but am looking for a shop manual site so as to get more familiar with the new info folks are so kindly giving to me. I'll go to the auto store ( for sure ) tomorrow and see what comes up.
The car has runs perfectly since that singular event (about 20 miles in 3 trips) but am as nervous as I can get as I have a must do --- 400 mile - get there on time or :( else .. in 3 weeks from today. so again, Thank you. 650 BSA

Hey CJ,
Just followed your "link" .... WOW. thank you again. Looks like you put me on the right trail. Very impressed and got to say it again ... thanks.
650BSA

Boy Scouts?

The Medic

If you ever have any question...............about anything!


This has helped me on a bunch of problems!

Too bad, it wasn't around in '81, when I blasted into Adultness!

The Medic

Thanks CJ,

BTW : BSA : Boy Scouts? ... No
**British Side Arms** : an English weapons and motor vehicle manufacturer.
Amongst the products , they made the BSA motorcycle ... they
went out of business in 1972. I bought my "thunderbolt" in
68 ... new for @ $1208.00 U.S. and I still have it!! ... and it still roars up .. on first kick! ... Yeh, turns heads today .. to see an 'olde guy' do the 'kick start'. tee-hee
..... mean time ... thank you again ... following your
helpful links and ... feels like I'm not too old to learn some new "tricks".
650BSA

Roger on BSA

My Favorite Company, just kept being passed around, over the years ('46 Willys and '77 Jeep CJ5)

The Medic

Good Morning!
I checked with AutoZone and two 'trusted' mechanic (referrals by neighbors).
AutoZ says they don't do extensive diagnostics. Could check out 'check eng. light' -- if it were on + engine running.
Mechanics (both) say without a "check engine light" on while running,
there will be NO CODES or info to guide them. They say the
Sable would need to be disabled again and they would need to
check it over then. In addition, one said the older cars do not have extended memory storage of "events" ... as can be found in newer 'improved diagnostic computers' of today's autos.
He also said the fuel filter would be his #1 as it should be a regular maintenance renewal item (@30K miles--49.5K now with original). And CSP a good candidate too. Further, he said ... it is hit / or miss / and so on with problems where the " component fails under stress " and apparently "re-sets after
a cool down or rest period."

Found the filter under the right rear door... looks very simple to replace.
Can't find the...Crankshaft-Position-Sensor.? Watched the video
and checked around starter but the old eyes aren't seeing it?
Will start a new search for videos after this post.
Check back here later.. thanks ... 650BSA

I MAY CAN FIND YOU A "C.P." DIAGRAM...GIVE ME A FEW-MANY MINUTES!

I'M NOT A PAID MECHANIC EITHER--JUST MY OWN, THRU NECESSITY!

I FIGURED, AT MINIMUM, IF YOU WERE SKEPTICAL

YOU MIGHT KEEP THE SOMEWHAT INEXPENSIVE PART HANDY, AND COULD MAYBE CHANGE IT "DURING" FAILURE....HAVE THE CORRECT NEEDED TOOLS ON HAND!

YOU KINDA ALREADY KNOW IT TAKES A WHILE TO COOL DOWN THEN CRANK UP,

SO SLAP IT ON QUICKLY, AND SEE IF IT WILL FIRE UP!

IT'S REALLY SIMPLE, IF IN THE WAY "CRAP", IS MINIMAL

BEATS A "HIGH DOLLAR" TOWING BILL, AND POSSIBLY "INCONCLUSIVE TESTING", WHEN IT IS NOW COOL, AND NOW AT A SHOP!

BACK SOON, I HOPE WITH YOUR DIAGRAM!

THE MEDIC

MAYBE DID'NT FILL IN ALL THE STUFF WHEN YOU GOT HERE?

SABLE....."GL" OR "LS"????

3.0......3 OPTIONS?

NO PROBLEM FOR CJ MEDEVAC!!!!!!!......HE IS THE MAN!

DUE TO THE LACK OF INFO--GOT ALL 3 DIAGRAMS

1ST IS 3.0L FFV

2ND IS GS 3.0L 4V

3RD IS GS 3.0L 2V

SURELY COMPARING YOUR OTHER ENGINE STUFF, WILL GET YOU ON THE CORRECT DIAGRAM!

BY THE WAY.......YOU OWE ME LUNCH!

THE MEDIC

CJ,
Just saw a video where a guy tried to test the CPS with a
hammer! Cute . He gets the engine running after a 'rest'... then he give the Sensor a little tap with the hammer and bingo, engine stops ... then a little wiggle and it's o.k. again.
Brought back memories of jury rigging throttle linkage on a VW bus so as to get out of the Chesapeake Bay tunnel / or later doing a video of the over haul of our Caddy V6 in front of our old residence -- piece by piece -- label and record, label and record ..etc --- and now days Humph, can't even locate a part on the engine ...
Hey I think you r right on! with having the CPS on-board.
I'm "good to go" on that ...
thanks once more for your "over the top" help. 650BSA

THANKS FOR COMIN' HERE...LIKE THE MAYTAG MAN,FOR ME, WHEN THERE'S NO CJs TO FIX!

NEED "ME" AGAIN? JUMP ON THIS POST AGAIN...NO MATTER HOW LONG

THE MEDIC

Hey CJ,
Guess what? Got the fuel filter replaced. Some real ugly tan to brownish gas in it. New air filters, oil, oil filter and the Crankshaft Pos. Sensor installed .... :( ...that's right ... In the wrong location!!!

Turns out that upper right front is the Camshaft Position Sensor. 98 Sable LS premium w/ Duratec Engine a 3L 6cyc., DOHC 24valve, engine code : S.
The CKS is on the left (as you face engine) in the rear toward the fire-wall and low ... down by the crankshaft and just under and in front of the Alternator. [ Apparently the CKS and the CMS use the same sensor ... so I didn't hurt anything when I put the new item in the CMS. And what a simple nice local that is ... and so here is a kick !.... The CKS is blocked at the very last 1/2 inch of removal by "the Alternator". Best to reach by jacking up front passenger side , removing front tire and then the plastic alternator splash shield. And there it is.
Switch out the CMS (new) back to the old and go ahead with CKP removal ..when oh-oh ... the lower rear alternator bolt housing extension will not allow the full removal. Tried every which way and am now (temporary) put back together while searching as best (easiest way) to get the alternator to move out of the way 1/2 inch. It looks like a removal may be only answer. Boo-Hoo.

I'm toying with a "trick" . :)
Grind, ( very slowly and carefully) a few levels of the alternator bolt housing extension [ which is the area blocking an easy removal ] . The housing is aluminum and the extension is very thick and looks as though a "dental graind" of "just the right amount and no more ... could do the trick.

The engine ran with seemingly more power and so smoothly and quietly we couldn't tell if it was on or had stopped without checking the dash gauges.

Thought you might enjoy (get a kick) out of this report.
Best regards, ________________ 650BSA

AS LONG AS YOU DON'T "MESS UP" A "LATER" ALTERNATOR REMOVAL VENTURE...I'M ALL FOR "USER FRIENDLY" MODIFICATIONS!

WHEN I INSTALLED THE IMPROVED "HEATER AND FRESH AIR VENT" OUT OF A '82 CJ INTO MY '77 CJ 5.....TOOK A GOOD BIT OF TIME, BUT "HEATER CORE" AND "BLOWER MOTOR" REPLACEMENT IS NOW EZ, NO MORE PULLING THE DASH, AND THE HEATER (A MAJOR JOB!)......REMOVE THE BATTERY TRAY AND WAH-LAH!!!!!

I MADE A WALMART ALBUM (SHARING) WITH ALL OF THE MEASUREMENTS FROM KNOWN POINTS...FOR OTHER JEEP FELLERS!

KEEP IT FLOWIN' IN!

I LIKE AUTO SOAP OPERAS, OTHERS MAY BENEFIT, IF THEY READ IT!

THE MEDIC

Hi CJ MEDEVAC and any others who may be checking this out.

The "Soap" continues with our hero giving up on the grind reduction of the alternator housing... too much needed to be cut out ... stopped @ 1/3 way seeing the futility of it. :(

But did find a simple and somewhat 'easy' way to get the sensor out without full removal of the alternator or belt removal. Loosen all three retaining bolts but leave them in!!! ... with care, pull the alternator out SLOWLY ... the long bolt in the lower fire-wall side will come out and you may need to help in that .. the Alternator will pull itself to the front (of the car) and up. This is the belts' tension effect. Now jiggle the alternator enough to give room to slide the Crankshaft sensor out. Prepare the new sensor with dab of oil around gasket and electric grease in the connector (optional). Slip it in. Now with the aid of a persuader (leverage bar) jockey the Alternator into position and carefully reinstall the bolts taking care as to not strip the threads or the Aluminum (soft) housing. You may need 'four hands' to do this easily .. I did it with two .. but am "on order" for two more .. plus arms .. :)

*** If you ever remove the alternator I would take that opportunity to cut away the section of housing that blocks the Crankshaft sensor removal. Replace the cut out section with a (now removable) hollow dowel. O that will just drop out when removing that ... ONE rear bolt past it.

*** A follow up to the mistaken replacement of the Camshaft sensor with the new Crankshaft sensor. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME !!! But the engine ran perfectly ... and more quietly than ever before. Replaced the old Cam shaft sensor too ... ( that is the one found on the left upper engine just below the plastic wire harness near the front.)

Gas mileage has showed 15% improvement with more power and quicker response to gas pedal ... I think it is done

and with many thanks to the help and direction of THE MEDIC !!!
best regards, and 'thank you' ... 650BSA

WONDERFUL!

YOU LIKE THIS DIY STUFF, DON'T YOU!

EXPLORE OUR SITE--LOTS OF GOOD STUFF!

COME BACK IF YOU NEED SOMETHING ELSE--DON'T BREAK YOUR STUFF JUST TO COME BACK--BREAK YOUR FRIENDS STUFF!

KEEP IT UP, YOU KNOW YOU'RE SAVING $$$...KEEP BUYING THOSE TOOLS TOO, YOU CAN ALWAYS RENT STUFF TO YOUR BUDDIES!

THE MEDIC