Will the engine run at all if the timing is off.

1996 SATURN SL1
135,000 MILES
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RICHDIETER
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I decided to install a new head after finding out the hard way (I bought it like this) the head was cracked. I have the new head bolted on, with a new timing chain and chain sprockets. the timing chain cover is on. I only work on the car on weekends when I have time. I should get it back together soon!
Anything else to watch out for when reinstalling the other parts?
Jan 17, 2012 at 11:18 PM
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SATURNTECH9
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So is the engine timed correctly?Do you need timing mark diagrams etc?That is a inference engine if your wrong and your off enough teeth on the timing chain setting it will bend valves.
Jan 18, 2012 at 12:17 AM
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RICHDIETER
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Thanks for answering.
I think the timing is correct. I tried to get the engine to TDC before I removed the old head. being an amatuer, I don't know if I did it correctly. I drew diagrams of the two old sprockets before removing them. But the new sprockets looked different than the old ones. Anyway, I matched the location of the valves on the two heads before installing the head so the new head is in the exact same position as the old one. THe chain went to the exact position I wanted it to go to. If the timing is off, it ain't off by much!
Jan 18, 2012 at 1:16 AM
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SATURNTECH9
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On the cam you line up the 3/16" dowl hole in the cam sprocket and the head with a drill bit.On the crank the timing mark on the gear lines up with the timing mark on the block.Then the two silver links go on the bottom of the crank gear and the one silver link lines up with the dot on the cam gear.Like in the diagram i posted.After that your home free on everything else.Was there oil mixed with the coolant?
Jan 18, 2012 at 2:11 AM
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RICHDIETER
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Yes, there was oil in the coolant. I had a mechanic inspect the car. He's the one who told me the head was cracked.
Thanks for the diagram. I hope I dont need it.
Jan 18, 2012 at 2:26 AM
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SATURNTECH9
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Those are known for that when the heads crack you have to replace everything not just the head.You have to replace the upper and lower radiator hoses all the heater hoses the coolant bottle the thermostat the water pump.Then flush the heater core radiator etc.
Jan 18, 2012 at 2:33 AM
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RICHDIETER
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Good news. I got this 96 Saturn back together, and it ran and sounded great. I ran it for about 30 seconds. Checked and filled the water and oil levels and started it again. Then it ran about a minute, very smoothly, and then it died.
It acts like it 's starved for fuel. recommendations?
Feb 19, 2012 at 10:16 PM
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SATURNTECH9
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What is your fuel pressure?Have you checked your coolant temp sensor yet?Any codes?
Feb 20, 2012 at 12:47 AM
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RICHDIETER
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Havent checked any of that. Thanks for the tips.
Feb 20, 2012 at 4:07 AM
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SATURNTECH9
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Your welcome keep me posted.
Feb 21, 2012 at 7:39 PM
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RICHDIETER
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I think the two wires got pulled out of the coolant temp sensor when I installed the new head. There is a blue and a yellow wire. I stuck them back into the sensor before I started it the first time. Does it matter where the blue and the yellow wire go?
Feb 23, 2012 at 10:54 PM
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SATURNTECH9
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The yellow wire goes to the A terminao and the black wire goes to the B terminal of the connector.Yes its a black wire not a blue wire going to the connector.I would get a new connector.Did the car start?
Feb 24, 2012 at 12:20 AM
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RICHDIETER
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IT started and ran for about 30 seconds. I shut it off to check the fluid levels. I topped off the coolan=t and oil, then started it again.
THen it ran for about 60 seconds, it started to sound different, then it died.
Feb 24, 2012 at 8:27 PM
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SATURNTECH9
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Did you out a new connector on it?How did it sound different before it died?
Feb 24, 2012 at 9:46 PM
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RICHDIETER
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I didn't put a new connector, I just stuck the two wires into the connector. (I didn't have a clue which one went where).
The engine almost sounded like it was a small diesel engine just before it died. It didn't take long to die. maybe a couple of seconds.
Feb 25, 2012 at 12:27 AM
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SATURNTECH9
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If you get a new connector i told you which color wires go to which letter terminals.The new connector will be labeled on the back of the connector A and b.The old is too on the connector over the connector where the wires go in.Did you check to make sure there wasnt any oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil?That there is no coolant in the spark plug holes when you remove the plugs.
Feb 25, 2012 at 1:57 AM
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RICHDIETER
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I got a connector for coolant temp. sensor from a junk yard. I flushed the radiator, and replaced radiator upper and lower hoses. also replaced smaller hose that goes from the coolant filler tank over to the head. Havent checked the spark plug holes yet.
THe car will turn over but won't start. I put the right front tire back on, and set down on all 4 tires. It's got a half tank of gas.
Also I got a code reader from a friend. It says there are no DTC's in the car's memory.
Mar 4, 2012 at 7:21 PM
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SATURNTECH9
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So we know we have the correct compression on all the cylinders we checked that?Also we have spark to all four cylinders?What is the fuel pressure readings?
Mar 4, 2012 at 8:51 PM
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RICHDIETER
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I got a compression tester from Autozone. Left most cylinder checked 0 psi. the middle two cyl. checked 50-55psi. The right most cylinder checked 0 psi. There was no water in the cyl's. Plenty of fuel where the spark plug openings are.
I tried to check the spark. It was difficult by myself. I think they were working.
Mar 11, 2012 at 3:09 PM
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SATURNTECH9
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You went wrong somewhere the compression should be 175psi or more on all the cylinders.
Mar 11, 2012 at 4:11 PM
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RICHDIETER
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Thanks, I'll keep digging and let you know what I find.
Mar 11, 2012 at 4:45 PM
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SATURNTECH9
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Alright keep me posted.
Mar 11, 2012 at 4:52 PM
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RICHDIETER
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I removed the valve cover, put the car in 2nd gear, and rolled it back and forth. The cam shaft gear for the timing chain moved, but the cam shaft did not.
Could the cam shaft have sheared the key for the sprocket?
Mar 19, 2012 at 3:25 PM
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RICHDIETER
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I have not returned the old head yet. I'm thinking if the pistons are not damaged, and only valves are damaged, I can take the two heads to an engine shop, and have one good head built from the two.
Mar 19, 2012 at 3:30 PM
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SATURNTECH9
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Sounds like the cam shaft gear did shear if the gear is moving without the cam moving.Was the cam ever tightend when you were done putting the head on?
Mar 19, 2012 at 3:30 PM
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SATURNTECH9
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Yes you could do that usually the pistions win.There may not be any valve damage before pulling the head i would get it retimed and see why the cam isnt spining.Then do another compression test.You can replace the cam without pulling the head.
Mar 19, 2012 at 3:38 PM
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RICHDIETER
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What exactly do you mean replace the cam without removing the head?
I will re set the timing and check the key, and tighten the cam to specs.
Mar 21, 2012 at 2:37 AM
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SATURNTECH9
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I was talking about if you had to replace the cam you dont have to remove the head.I wasnt sure if you knew that so thats why i said that.
Mar 21, 2012 at 2:42 AM
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RICHDIETER
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Okay, thanks. I get it now.
Mar 21, 2012 at 12:57 PM
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RICHDIETER
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I removed the timing chain cover, and found the timing gear bolt had backed off, then the gear backed off. THe cam had moved toward the rear of the engine. I moved it forward, and retimed the engine. checked the compression. I got 125 in 3 cyl's and 45 psi in the foourth.
So I sent the head back. THey said it was damaged, so I got another head, and will install it soon.
Apr 27, 2012 at 3:17 PM
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SATURNTECH9
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Sounds like some valves bent.Did you make sure the dowel pin where the cam sprocket goes on didnt shear off from the cam sprocket bolt being loose?I have seen that happen before.
Apr 27, 2012 at 3:59 PM
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RICHDIETER
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I bolted another head onto this engine. Set the timing and checked the compression. At the moment there is no oil in the engine. I got good compression on 3 cyl's and about 60psi on the last one.
I plan to put the oil in and check compression again. IF it is better, I'll put everything else back on and try to start it.
May 1, 2012 at 5:31 PM
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SATURNTECH9
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What are the compression readings of the other 3 cylinders?60psi is really low sounds like a valve issue being that low or the lifter didnt pump up yet.Heres a little trick i like to help pump the lifters up.Put the oil in and pull the ignition and injector fuses.Then crank the engine over till the low oil pressure light turns off.Just make sure you dont crank it too long at one time.Then put the fuses back in.
May 1, 2012 at 6:12 PM
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RICHDIETER
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Good news! After installing another head, the engine is working just fine. I still need to flush the radiator, other than that, I think I'm finished.
THanks so much for your help.
Jun 1, 2012 at 6:53 PM
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SATURNTECH9
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Your welcome make sure you flush it without the thermostat in it also flush the heater core seperate to get all the oil out.Your going to have to replace all the heater hoses water pump coolant bottle radiator hoses thermostat etc if oil mixed in with the coolant.
Jun 1, 2012 at 9:29 PM