1989 Ford Festiva Idles fine bogs on acceleration

1989 FORD FESTIVA
AUTOMATIC
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
I purchased a 89 Ford Festiva L. The fuel pump, fuel filter, Dist. cap, rotor ignition coil, plug wires and the exhaust from the manifold back have been replaced new. It starts, runs and idles fine, after a couple good cranks. However, when I press the accelerator down it bogs, spits, sputters and idles extremely rough with no power, until I release the accelerator, then it once again returns to a nice idle. In doing my own hit and miss research, I found out there is one check engine light code #81. I have since replaced the MAF sensor, O2 sensor. After installing the MAF I reconnected the MAF connector and start the car it idles for a second, then dies. If I unplug the MAF cable and start it runs as before, no change in accelerator issue. The MAF plug was not an issue prior to change. Following the manual I checked the power relay it was ok, however I found the fuel pump relay as faulty, I replaced it and still the same issue. I did however, find out the previous owner ran a switched 12v lead directly to the Grn/Y wire on the fuel pump connector, so the fuel pump runs continuously when the key is in the on position. The Grn/Y wire runs back to the fuel pump, I assume it gives it power. Eliminated the direct switched 12v lead the previous owner installed and I am running with the relay as intended, when I check voltage at the fuel pump plug I only get a cranking voltage of 8-9 volts. Pump does not turn on. Of course when I reconnect the switched 12v lead it works? I can operate the pump as the previous owner has rigged up. I am still perplexed about the bogging issue. Not sure if it is a fuel pressure issue I bought a gauge) or a timing issue. I am using the buy the component and see if it works process, It is getting expensive. I need help in narrowing this a little further and in the right direction. Any advice would help.
May 22, 2014 at 6:37 PM
Advertisement
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
The idea of running a toggle to operate the fuel pump isn't the issue here, even though it isn't a safe way to do it.

A code 81 deals with the Secondary Air Injection Diverter Solenoid failure. The solenoid valve located on the back side of the passenger side wheel well is not functional. It could be due to bad wiring, bad connections, missing or defective solenoid valve. Check the solenoid valve for +12 volts at the Red wire. There should also be a Lt Green/Black wire to switch from +12 volts to 1 volt or less. The computer controls the valve by providing a ground path on the LT Green/Black wire for the solenoid valve.

With the with the ignition on, look for 12 volts on the red wire on the solenoid connector. No 12 volts and you have wiring problems. Also, by putting the computer into self test mode, you will cause the solenoid valve to toggle. If you listen carefully, you may hear it change.
May 22, 2014 at 6:52 PM
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
Hey thank you for the quick response. I am unable to locate anything on the passenger side. All components other than the MAF are located on the left side. There are no electrical connections that I can see. Is it possible I misunderstood you?
May 22, 2014 at 7:29 PM
Advertisement
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
Sorry, my memory may be going on an 89, It could be the left side.
May 23, 2014 at 4:49 AM
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
Thank you again. I will check this evening and let you know how that worked. By the way how do you put the computer into self test mode? In looking for resolution to my issue,this solenoid could potentially be my issue for the bogging?
May 23, 2014 at 7:22 AM
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
You need to locate the single wire plug next to the master cylinder, it should just be dangling there next to another plug that isn't connected to anything. Place a jumper wire between that single plug and a good ground. Now just go turn the key to ACC, and watch the check engine light. It will flash codes which are two digit numbers. Count the flashes, then there will be a brief delay, then it will flash a second number. For example, one flash, a pause, and then two flashes would be a code 12.
May 23, 2014 at 8:52 AM
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
Oh yeah, that! Yes, that is how I came up with the Code # 81. I just cannot for the life of me figure out what it was. I assume I will have to reset the trouble code once I resolve my issue? I think it said disconnect -cable from batt. and hold the brake pedal down for an allotted time? Well I hope your suggestion either resolves my issue or puts me on the right path.
May 23, 2014 at 9:13 AM
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
I hope so. Let me know what you find.
May 23, 2014 at 9:36 AM
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
Well I found what appears to be the SAIDS. There are 2 vacuum lines attached.one goes to the top of the intake and the other to the top of the Canister. The plug has 2 wires one, red with silver stripe and the other is yellow with a black stripe.they are to small to get a volt meter lead into to read voltage. I put the into test mode and do not hear anything.
May 23, 2014 at 4:23 PM
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
Something is telling me that is the problem, but I can't be sure without checking for power to it.
May 24, 2014 at 6:24 PM
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
I will check the voltage, I am not sure which one is the power. I will find something to wedge in there to read the voltage and let you know tomorrow.
May 24, 2014 at 6:39 PM
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
Sounds good. Let me know.
May 24, 2014 at 6:48 PM
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
With the key in the on position there is 11 volts to the solenoid.
May 27, 2014 at 4:28 PM
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
Is that with the key on and engine off?
May 27, 2014 at 6:07 PM
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
Yes, My apologies
May 27, 2014 at 6:17 PM
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
My god... no need for apologies. lol

Start the engine and throttle it to see how the voltage changes. It should drop when you hit the gas.
May 27, 2014 at 6:52 PM
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
LOL...Nope, Start the car and give it gas, it goes to 13v and stays there when I hit the pedal.
May 27, 2014 at 7:06 PM
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
That should drop to near 1 volt. Otherwise the solenoid won't function.
May 28, 2014 at 5:31 AM
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
With that being said, am I now looking at a wiring issue?
May 28, 2014 at 7:01 AM
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
I don't think the wiring is the problem. Now I question the ECM. I think we need to determine which wires from the ECM go to the solenoid and check to see if the power is correct at the ECM. The ECM is what provides the ground pathway to the solenoid.
May 28, 2014 at 8:49 AM
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
I have been suspect of the ECM for multiple issues. i.e. fuel pump not shutting off, MAF plug connector is not reading voltage, etc...

I have a wire schematic for the car.I can trace them back, it is only two wires. So will I now check the power at the plug on the ECM?
May 28, 2014 at 9:23 AM
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
Sorry for all the work, but this isn't an easy one. You realize that the MAF could be causing this problem too. I didn't realize there was no power to it.
May 28, 2014 at 9:46 AM
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
No problem,this is a mission now. I was under the impression that the MAF was the issue initially.I replaced the MAF. It was not until I connected the new one that I discovered it immediately stalled the car when I plugged the connector to it. When testing the connector to the MAF (From the repair manual) I checked the voltage.I think it said the voltage was supposed to read 5v with KOEO. I read 0V. If no voltage, says to check FP relay...Dead,I replaced it. That's when I found the FP was hard wired to switched ignition source. The Power relay clicks but I did not remove it. I assumed it was ok. I checked continuity of the connector, OK. Traced a wire (from schematic) from the connector to the test plug for continuity, Ok. Was not sure where to go from there. I was focusing on the Solenoid we have been discussing. Further, thanks again for your help. In appreciation,will I still have the option to provide a donation for your assistance?
May 28, 2014 at 10:03 AM
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
Honestly, it is up to you. We answer them for free all the time, so don't be concerned.
May 28, 2014 at 10:41 AM
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
Thanks. Your thoughts on where I should go from here?
May 28, 2014 at 10:45 AM
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
I think the PCM needs checked.
May 28, 2014 at 10:49 AM
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
Is pulling the ECM out best for this, or testing at individual plugs for vlotage?
May 28, 2014 at 10:54 AM
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
I would leave it mounted in the vehicle for this test.
May 28, 2014 at 6:15 PM
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
I have not tested an ECM before, what exactly am I testing? What type of diagnosing? Anything specific I am looking for? Am I starting with the MAF wire from the connection to the ECM?
May 28, 2014 at 6:44 PM
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
Basically, you need to first check to see if there are signals to the MAF right at the ECM. There could be a wiring issue between the ECM and the sensor. If you get the same reading at the ECM (0 volts) to the MAF, then I would pull the unit and have it checked. I hate to say it, but on an 89, I can't remember for sure, but I believe you will need special tooling to check it.
May 28, 2014 at 6:56 PM
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
I will pull the wiring schematic and begin checking wires. It would be cheaper to pickup an ECM at the junk yard. I will let you know if I locate something. It make take sometime, I'ill get back to you.
May 28, 2014 at 7:06 PM
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
I look forward to hearing from you.
May 29, 2014 at 7:04 PM
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
Sorry it has been awhile, I took my family on vacation. Anyway, using the wiring diagram I traced all of the wires back to the plug at the PCM. All have continuity. I have also checked the TPS its ok. I purchased a new solenoid, the one on the back of the engine. I have not checked voltage yet but after changing it and starting the car it still bogs down when I give it gas. It is confusing that it will idle fine without the MAF connected, but as soon as I connect it,it dies.mI assume I will have to pull the PCM now? I have not checked fuel pressure or the pressure regulator. Any more ideas?

Dan
Jun 19, 2014 at 7:40 PM
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
Dan:

Good to hear from you. Actually, I'm sitting at the beach right now myself. lol Leaving tomorrow to go home.

As far as the problem, it may be a good idea to check fuel pump pressure and the regulator.
Jun 19, 2014 at 8:53 PM
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
Hope you had a cold one for me!

I am going to check the fuel pressure today. However, the 89 Festiva I believe does not have a fuel test port. I have a gauge and I will have to test from the fuel filter, what does the fuel filter adapter look like? Also am I checking the fuel pressure between the Fuel filter and the pressure regulator only,and not after the regulator correct? I looked at your video for "how to check a fuel pump." Should the same principles apply?

Dan
Jun 20, 2014 at 7:55 AM
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
Hay,

Finally home... god that long of a trip with a wife and kids isn't good. lol

Yes, the same principals will apply. As far as an adapter, you will have to check what kind of connection you have at the filter. Also, I would recommend checking it after the filter in case the filter is plugging.
Jun 20, 2014 at 7:56 PM
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
Ok so check it before and after the filter? Also coincidently I am looking at my huge shop manual. Curious, it talks about an ISC-BPA Valve ad part of the fuel system. What is this? Also, does the VAC Meter or MAF. Have to be dialed in? It says it has a potentiometer. This issue seems like it would be eady to diagnose. I am trying to see what I need. The scrap yard just got an 89 Festival on Tuesday. Id like to grab the PCM or fuel regulator, lol!

Thanks,

Dan
Jun 20, 2014 at 8:08 PM
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
The ISC is easy... idle speed control valve. It was replaced with what is now called the IAC, Idle air control valve. PCA has me a bit confused. The only time I have even heard that term was when referring to the valve body in the transmission. Does your book reference anything else related to it?
Jun 21, 2014 at 7:35 PM
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
Did you mean PCM? The manual calls the ECM the PCM. Could the ISC be causing my issue? This is not easy to diagnose.
Jun 21, 2014 at 11:28 PM
Avatar
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • CERTIFIED EXPERT
  • 110,175 POSTS
I really don't think the ISC would cause the issue you described. Basically it is a valve that allows a metered amount of air into the engine (at idle only). Once you place your foot on the gas and open the throttle body, basically the ISC does nothing.

I hate to say it, but you're right. This is a tough one to diagnose. It's going to put us both in the nut house. lol I feel really bad that we haven't solved this issue. What makes things even harder is not being there.

Did you get a fuel pressure reading?
Jun 22, 2014 at 8:58 PM
Avatar
DANNYBOY524
  • MEMBER
  • 22 POSTS
So, would high fuel pressure cause an issue? I connected the fuel pressure gauge today and just turned on the key and the psi went to 70. I did not do a running test because the hose split.

Oh yeah, remember I said that when I connect the plug to the MAF, it kills the engine while idling? When I do plug it in it shuts the check engine light off.

Your thoughts?

Dan
Jun 25, 2014 at 6:42 PM