Engine stalls

1995 BUICK LESABRE
148,999 MILES • 3.8L • 6 CYL • 2WD • AUTOMATIC
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BUICK_DUDE
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In the past this car would get me around town just fine only a slight high idle at startup a little too quick on the jump from start, but the motor mounts are shot so, anyway.

Then, I would need to feed it a little gas and get in reverse for a car lengths back to it wouldn't stall on me.

Lastly, it will start and goes to high idle idle that when I depress the with my foot it revs down to stall. If I don't do that it stalls anyways.

I did change the TPS sensor and it got worst it seems. I turned it on today and moved it around the back side of the house and the transmission seemed sluggish like if the car was dragging had to rev high to get it to move and then smoke under the hood. Popped the hood and I couldn't see where the smoke was coming. It's more like vapor but smoke not the white white smoke you get when oil is burning, if that helps. :)

Motor oil is good, Transmission oil is good. Catalytic converter seems to had been replaced recently. Also this one time my dad was replacing a water hose under the intake and he broke a connector to sensor, it's a one wire connector. Does anyone know what that is? I super glued it back together and the car went back to staying on after warming up and putting it in drive and moving it a little.

I am interested in getting feedback, I don't know too much but I have been reading online. Any advice would help if not to fix, then to socialize heh heh. Thanks!
Dec 5, 2019 at 12:08 PM
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It sounds like you have a massive vacuum leak. Check the intake manifold, throttle body and all vacuum lines. You can shoot very small bursts of carburetor clean or either all the was around the manifold, throttle body and at each end of the vacuum lines with it running. If the motor speed changes at all you have a vacuum leak.

Please be careful to shoot specific places and not to just spray everywhere as this will start a fire or worse. Small 1 second bursts are all you need.

Let us know what you find out.

Rich
Dec 6, 2019 at 9:39 AM
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BUICK_DUDE
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I can't keep the car on long enough to spray the aerosol on and around the engine bay. By the way it makes a loud swoosh wind noise when it stalls. What is that?

Also, the PCV grommet was toast cut and trimmed some heater hose and now that is sealed. PCV tested to make sure it was not stuck.
Dec 6, 2019 at 10:45 AM
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The PCV was an issue but it wont cause this.

The sound you hear could be the vacuum leak.

You can try doing a visual inspection of all the lines but a leak this big would be something like the brake booster line, manifold or throttle body.

If you can get someone to help you by continuously starting the car, IE spray as they crank it so the area is wet when it starts. When you find it it should run maybe a second longer than when its not sprayed. If you think you found it spray it on start up and every1 to 2 seconds give it a good shot and it should stay running for as long as you spray it. If that happens you found your leak.

Rich
Dec 6, 2019 at 4:28 PM
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BUICK_DUDE
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Haven't gotten around to messing with the car again. It's still parked outside. Probably put a battery in it tomorrow and see where's she's at.
Jan 26, 2020 at 3:47 PM
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We are here whenever you need us.
Jan 26, 2020 at 6:07 PM
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BUICK_DUDE
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Okay, added gas, put battery in. took video of me cranking. I added a little throttle body cleaner before hand. it came on but wont idle. also you may be able to hear the swoosh sound it makes after it shuts off. the TPS sensor is hand tightened at the moment moved it clockwise. it seemed to have turned on sooner than later. car been sitting for a month.
I was stomping on the gas pedal but it seems like if I just keep it all the way down and just keep cranking it will eventually sputter and turn on to a wide open throttle.
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Jan 31, 2020 at 9:43 AM
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BUICK_DUDE
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Car turns on without pumping the gas pedal it high idles then tries to idle it will up idle then try to normal idle eventually it shuts off. it does not shut off with car in gear, but then....
moved vehicle, transmission gave out. fans wouldn't turn on
Turned off car. checked transmission fluid, added transmission fluid (I have added fluid before Maybe its leaking?). Turned it back on and it moves a couple of car lengths before it gave out again (the transmission).
Jan 31, 2020 at 10:04 AM
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BUICK_DUDE
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I tightened this connector up and it stopped smoking.
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Jan 31, 2020 at 1:26 PM
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Okay first. The smoke is bad. If you found the bad connection that is good but you need to inspect that wire end to end to make sure none of the insulation melted off and you have an open wire.

At this point you have all the symptom of a bad MAP sensor. A new one should be around $25.00 if you can afford to get one and try it. Location is in diagram below.

Also, do you have any trouble codes?

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/checking-a-service-engine-soon-or-check-engine-light-on-or-flashing

Rich
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Jan 31, 2020 at 6:22 PM
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BUICK_DUDE
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No check engine light on, except when I unplug the temperature sender sensor. The reason I would do that was that I read in another thread that doing that would turn on the radiator fans continuously which it used to do, it no longer turns them on(dunno). Also removed the thermostat just yesterday because I figured out it was stuck close. Next I unplugged one of the transmission lines to the radiator transmission cooler (which is part of the radiator) and ran the car for a second, the fluid came out red but very runny...car has 146,000 it probably has never been changed. Anyways I jacked the car up and had a quick look at the undercarriage and all near and around the transmission it was gunked up with dirt and fluid (most likely transmission fluid). Months ago this car was shifting and running good enough. Ordered the MAP sensor, will have to wait for that (February 6).
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Feb 1, 2020 at 8:38 PM
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The engine light doesn't have to be on. It will only light up for an active failure. So lets say your EGR valve is bad for instance. The engine light will come on when the PCM calls for EGR and senses its not working. But when conditions change and the EGR isn't needed the light will go out and it will store the code. So just because the light isn't on does not mean there are no codes. I would check!

Next, transmission fluid is a very thin runny fluid. That is normal. And a bright red color says it is in good shape. If the fluid turn to a burned red or brown, that is not good. Trans fluid should be changed every 35,000 miles though with a new filter.

As for the leaks, given the mileage Id say this is normal. You should occasionally pressure wash all that off as to avoid a fire hazard.

Check the codes and let me know what they are if you have any and let me know if the new MAP makes a difference.

Rich
Feb 1, 2020 at 9:28 PM
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BUICK_DUDE
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Okay, Mr Rich. I will work on getting ready for when the MAP sensor comes in. I will check those engine codes Monday. Thanks for your attention to this thread.
Feb 2, 2020 at 9:46 AM
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You are welcome.
Feb 2, 2020 at 9:57 AM
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BUICK_DUDE
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Received the MAP sensor but haven't been able to locate it. Above the water pump.
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Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM
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You remove the top cover on the motor and it is on the left side of the motor right next to the alternator at the end of the plenum sticking right up in the air all by its self.

Rich
Feb 7, 2020 at 5:39 PM
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BUICK_DUDE
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Anyone have a location picture? It's for the map sensor location for 1987 Lesabre with the 3.8 engine.
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Feb 9, 2020 at 3:37 PM
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It is #12 in the picture.

Rich
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Feb 9, 2020 at 7:21 PM
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BUICK_DUDE
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Still looking.
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Feb 14, 2020 at 1:02 PM
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This motor doesn't look like any image I can find for a 1995 3.8. Are you sure the motor size and year is correct?
Feb 14, 2020 at 5:19 PM
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Oh, it's an 1987 3.8. i haven't been able to find it either.
I couldn't change that info. I corrected on the title. I did search correct year on rockauto.
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Feb 15, 2020 at 12:19 PM
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I can't find that motor as an 1987 either.

Check up loaded photo. What is the connector in the red circle?
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Feb 15, 2020 at 5:58 PM
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I will keep looking more in depth tomorrow. I looked over the top area and under some plastic guards on the firewall to no avail. (See attached picture). On that picture the last item to the right looks like a sensor the other pieces are relays. Will double check info. Thanks for your patience and help friend.
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Feb 16, 2020 at 3:56 PM
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By the way it does say 1987 on the registration and 3.8 on the engine tag. The 1987 3.8 Lesabre does come up on rockauto's website catalog. Dunno. Wish I had Alldata, hahaha.
Feb 16, 2020 at 4:10 PM
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

In 1987, the 3.8 was the only engine I see as available on this vehicle. Have you checked for diagnostic trouble codes? Here is a link showing how it's done. You don't need a scanner.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/buick-cadillac-chevy-gmc-oldsmobile-pontiac-gm-1983-1995-obd1-code-definitions-and-retrieval-method

Now, if there is a problem with the MAP, you should have a code 33. Is that the case? Interestingly, even if the MAP fails, the ECM will substitute a fixed MAP value and use the throttle position sensor to control the fuel delivery.

I watched the video of it running. Something was popping from the side of the engine. Are you sure there isn't a vacuum leak as was first mentioned? Have you checked engine timing and engine compression?

Let us know.

Joe
Feb 17, 2020 at 8:07 PM
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Update: got codes:
12 system normal
15 coolant sensor circuit low open
23 intake air flow sensor out of range, low

The TPS sensor is not calibrated, I replaced with a new one. had also replaced the water temp sensor in the past. I will check codes and post back. took out the thermostat because it was stuck closed. I also need to get some carburetor spray to check for a vacuum leak and lastly some transmission fluid to replace the amount that I drained when checking the color.
Feb 19, 2020 at 3:45 PM
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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The idea that the coolant temperature sensor is off can be the cause of the high idle. Since the thermostat was removed, it will take longer for the engine to heat up, and may not reach operating temperature. The computer may be causing the fuel mixture to be too rich. As far as the MAF, disconnect it and see if the problem goes away. That will force the computer to go to predetermined settings. If it is your problem, it should idle normal.

Let me know how things turn out for you. Also, it really should have a new thermostat in it.

Take care,
Joe
Feb 19, 2020 at 8:04 PM
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I will make another video soon, the car now turns and stays on. very rough idle with high idle. radiator fan does not work. the thermostat does open a little when I put into hot water but have no way to compare how open is open enough? although it is currently out of the car. sprayed some carburetor cleaner and saw no noticeable rpm change but the car with its rough idle it's hard to tell.

the temperature sensor and TPS are new. I don't know why the fans no longer work. I read somewhere online that if I unplugged temp sensor the fan should automatically go on constant and they used to but that is no longer the case.

The transmission goes out in whatever gear its in. but I noticed it works a tad longer when the transmission lockup TCS sensor is unplugged.

Need to buy the thermostat.
Feb 22, 2020 at 12:49 PM
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

If possible, let us see the video. Also, as far as the fan, have you tried running power directly to it to confirm the motor itself is good? Have you checked fuses and relays?

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-a-car-fuse-works

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-a-car-fuse

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-test-light-circuit-tester

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-voltmeter

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-wiring

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-an-electrical-relay-and-wiring-control-circuit

Have you checked other things that could be causing it to run poorly such as a plugged catalytic converter, fuel pressure and regulator, and so on? Do you still see smoke?

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-a-catalytic-converter


https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-fuel-system-pressure-and-regulator

If I could hear it running now, it may help.

Let me know.

Joe
Feb 22, 2020 at 5:35 PM
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BUICK_DUDE
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Thanks in advance for the links. I will get to it on the fan troubleshooting first on Tuesday.
Went ahead and ordered the air temperature sensor, IAC valve and thermostat. should arrive by the 28. Does anybody happen to know if my car has an actual map sensor like pictured below? I got a code for it. rechecked the engine codes just know and got air temperature code 23, TPS code 22 and code 34 map sensor.
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Feb 22, 2020 at 5:51 PM
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JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

Let us know. I have to ask, did you start a different link regarding the MAP? Just curious because I just answered one. As far as a the sensors, they both do the same thing but do it differently. One reads the inflow of air (MAF) and the other measures vacuum (MAP). Based on what I have, they are calling it a MAF. I attached a pic below of the code you indicated (34). Take a look. If you did start a different thread, follow the directions I listed there. If not, let me know.

Take care,

Joe
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Feb 22, 2020 at 6:18 PM
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Yes, I made that thread too.
Feb 25, 2020 at 1:30 PM
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Should have all parts by Saturday. Ordered MAF,MAP, air intake sensor and thermostat.
Feb 25, 2020 at 1:31 PM
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Let me know what happens or if you have other questions.

Take care,
Joe
Feb 25, 2020 at 6:47 PM
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Got the IAC, thermostat and air intake sensor. Installed. Fans turn on when I unplug the temp sensor only. I need help troubleshooting the fan problem.

The car turns off at idle after warm up and while getting to red traffic lights. The transmission shifts better. The car bucks.

No check engine lights when the temperature sensor is plugged but the fans wont work. Car stalls at stop lights.
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Feb 27, 2020 at 4:28 PM
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Moved the TPS a little.
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Feb 27, 2020 at 4:33 PM
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There should be 3 wires on the TPS. Use an ohm meter and put one probe to ground and pierce each of the 3 wires till you find the one where the voltage changes when you move the throttle. Once you find that wire adjust the TPS with the throttle closed until the voltage reads 5 volts. That is where it should be adjusted to.

Rich
Feb 27, 2020 at 5:11 PM
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Okay, will do tomorrow and report back.
Feb 27, 2020 at 7:00 PM
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Battery dead on multi-meter. on hold until I get the battery and MAF (next Tuesday).

Ordered the fan relay in the meanwhile(expected Next Wednesday).

Went through the fuse blades last night. Most all lit up and the ones that didn't I pulled and checked if burnt, but they weren't.
Feb 28, 2020 at 2:13 PM
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Please let us know what you find. We are interested to see what it is.
Mar 2, 2020 at 12:39 PM
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Set the TPS. Replaced high fan relay. Fans turn on now. Getting intermittent check engine light while driving. I saw that both knock sensor plugs are broken. I glued them on but didn't remove check engine light. Need to check coded again. Car runs good enough. Thanks for the help. Wouldn't of gotten this far without all of guy's help. I had to put like 4 quarts of trans fluid to get it shifting good. I don't know why it needed that much. It still goed out gear when turning sharp either left or right. I need to get it on level ground. Putting a little more fluid may help but that is how I bought it.
Mar 28, 2020 at 12:50 PM