Engine no start

The Prostolite is not a well thought out system. The darn entrance wires are TEENY WEENY SOLID COPPER and break EZily if they are allowed to flop around.....Motorcraft are stranded and the Advance Mechanism is designed better (when the P-O-lite, advance messed up, you never really noticed it, I found it several times, not working, with my timing light!)

The Advance on the front of the distributor (bellows) and the plastic crap within that actually do the the time changing--burst or hang up

Even the Modules--Prestolite and Motorcraft......you can by a BAD NEW ONE!!!......Really helps out when, you tear into it, trying to find another problem!!!!!!

Autozone and Advance Auto will test 'em for FREE!!---I make 'em test 5 or more time in a row to warm 'em up--if they fail get a new one----------It too undergoes the same test........I pulled my hair out a long time...thinking my NEW MODULE WAS GOOD!

I swapped to a Motorcraft--rebuilt at Advance Auto, several years ago $50--module was maybe $20-$35

It had got to the point a carried a spare Prestolite Distributor with me at all times....Sure they would make the Lifetime Warranty good, but I had to get out of a bind to do so!

I modified my prestolite Dist--its now my oil primer hooked to a drill, drive gear removed, to prime a newly rebuilt engine! (pic of it beside my Motorcraft)

I can assist you thru a change over with pics and explanations if you like

It wasn't too difficult to wire it up and make it work

Just for "Dookies and Giggles"---shake your wiring while someone elses tries to crank it

I answer most of the CJs here, and I get carried away, with Novel-like---detailed answers and pics

Refer you to other CJ answers I have written--removing the Pollution crap and using only needed vacuum lines (eliminating leaks within the big ole mess from before)....and tuning....I know a lot!!!!

Your Turn--I will help till we're BUDDIES!

The Medic

Here's a couple more--respond with all info related and prior to this issue

SORRY ABOUT MY MISSPELLING ABOVE, THE OLD UN-RE-VAMPED SITE HAD "EDIT" WHERE I COULD FIX STUFF SUCH AS "BY"--SUPPOSED TO BE "BUY"...I USUALLY DO NOT CATCH STUFF TILL ITS BEEN 3O MIN. BEFORE I GO BACK AND PROOFREAD.

ANOTHER POSSIBILITY IS THE COIL

"OURS IS SPECIAL" IT MUST BE/ OR SAY ON IT "FOR USE WITH EXTERNAL RESISTOR"----IF YOU USE ONE WITH A INTERNAL RESISTOR, YOU EXPONENTIATE YOUR RESISTANCE (CUTTING YOUR VOLTAGE DOWN EVEN MORE THAN IT SHOULD ALREADY BE REDUCED, BY "ONE" RESISTOR, NOT ENOUGH TO RUN IT!!!)---THE WIRE COMING MOST OF THE WAY FROM THE IGNITION SWITCH*****IS A RESISTOR WIRE ALREADY!!!*****ALSO, YOU GET FULL BATTERY VOLTAGE TO YOUR COIL VIA THE "I" TERMINAL ON YOUR SOLENOID (WHEN YOU RELEASE THE KEY, "I" DIES, AND YOU RUN OFF OF YOUR REDUCED VOLTAGE FROM THE "ON POSITION"

WHERE YOU BEEN? RESPOND

THE MEDIC

Had to go an let my son make a deer dead.

I understand and agree the prestolite system is crap but it has been working, know about testing at autozone we had them order 4 and none was good. Found one finally that tested out good and when we hooked that ignition box up we got spark. Also have tested the coil and it tests to specs also. Replaced plugs spark tester shows good spark also removing plug and grounding against block shows good blue spark. We can see fuel going into the carb so with spark and fuel should get fire right? I have gone as far as ether in a couple of cylinders still no fire. Only thing else that we can think of is timing chain slipped -- could be a coincidental thing. When jeep quit in town we tried to pull start which didn't work either. I am thinking that maybe the first issue was the ignition module and by chance when we tried to pull start we may have slipped the timing chain a cog and that is now the issue since we have spark and fuel but no fire.

back to you medic

LETS TRY

JUMPER WIRE

POSITIVE BATTERY TO POSITIVE COIL---BY-PASSING "ON" OF THE IGNITION SWITCH

YOU CAN HOOK UP TO THE COIL SIMILAR TO THIS IN MY PIC (NAIL OR SCREWDRIVER)-----EXCEPT THIS IS "NEGATIVE" COIL THAT I'M PLUGGED INTO WITH MY DWELL METER

I FEEL YOU KNOW YOUR ENGINE, MAYBE YOU JUST MISSED SOMETHING

I'LL HANG WITH YOU AND WE WILL KEEP TRYING

WAS YOUR TIMING CHAIN NOISY?

IS THE HOUSING EXPANDED ANYWHERE, THAT THE CHAIN BULGED IT OUT?

YOUR TURN

THE MEDIC

We already tried jumping the coil as you had explained in a previous post. Just cranked no start. Had a ticking sound that could have been timing chain. Not seeing any bulges in the housing.

'NOTHER CHECK FOR YOU

FIND NUMBER 1 DISTRIBUTOR TOWER (THE POST THAT #1 SPARK PLUG WIRE IS ON)

WITH A MARKER, SORTA FIND "DUE SOUTH" OF THE POST (DOWN)----MAKE A MARK ON THE DISTRIBUTOR HOUSING SO THAT YOU WILL KNOW EXACTLY WHERE #1 TOWERS' POSITION IS ----IF YOU REMOVE THE DISTRIBUTOR CAP

YOU NOW HAVE A REFERENCE #1 TOWER ON THE DISTRIBUTOR METAL HOUSING

NEXT, TAKE OUT #1 SPARK PLUG

WATCH THE FAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SHOVE YOUR THUMP IN THE EMPTY PLUG HOLE AND ATTEMPT TO SEAL IT

"DEER FELLER" SORTA BUMPS THE ENGINE AROUND WITH THE KEY (USE A REMOTE STARTER IF YOU GOT ONE)

WHEN YOU HEAR IT "SPIT" BY YOUR THUMB--------STOP THE BUMPING, IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!

YOU HAVE JUST "SENSED" THE #1 PISTON STARTING COMPRESSION STROKE (ALL VALVED CLOSED, ON ITS WAY TOWARD "TDC".......YOUR THUMB COULD NOT HOLD BACK THE COMPRESSION...HENCE THE SPIT!

NOW, WITH A BIG SOCKET AND A PULL HANDLE, GET ON THE HARMONIC BALANCER BOLT AND TURN THE ENGINE IN THE DIRECTION IT WAS TURNING WHILE IT WAS BEING BUMPED AROUND.

WATCH YOUR TIMING MARKS--WHEN YOU GET IT TO "ZERO" STOP MOVING IT!

IF YOU LOOK BACK AT YOUR DISTRIBUTOR---THE ROTOR BUTTON SHOULD BE POINTING AT THE "MARK" OF THE # 1 TOWERS' POSITION-OR DARN CLOSE

IF ITS A WAYS OFF, IT COULD BE THE CHAIN, IF ITS DEAD ON, RULE THE CHAIN OUT.....VALVE TIMING IS GOOD

IF MY PICS WENT IN CORRECTLY

THE 1ST IS AT 8 DEGREES BTDC [BEFORE TDC](JUST BEFORE OUR MARKS HIT, TDC, [TOP DEAD CENTER]

THE SECOND PIC SHOULD SHOW "TDC" OR "ZERO"----THERE WILL BE ONE MARK BELOW...2 DEGREES ATDC (AFTER TOP DEAD CENTER)----THIS WOULD BE THE BEGINNING OF THE "POWER STROKE"

(THATS CHALK IN THE HARMONIC MARK----BLACK MARKER[THE MARK, I MARKED FOR ANOTHER POST'S TIMING, 8 DEGREES-----AND "ZERO" IS ONE MARK UP FROM THE BOTTOM)


HOW CAN YOU MESS UP WITH THIS?---IT MIGHT TAKE A FEW TRIES TO GET THE ACCUSTOMED TO THE DEAL.

YO!!! ------BEFORE YOU START BUMPING---TAKE COIL POWER LOOSE AND/ OR THE MIDDLE COIL WIRE---SO IT WILL NOT START UP!!!!!!!!!!

THE MEDIC

MEDIC, rotor is past 1 post on cap by quite a ways actually past the next post clockwise (the 5 cylinder. I believe our next task will be to take off the timing cover and check the timing chain. I would expect to find a fair amount of deflection. have seen some videos where when you turn the engine by hand you can actually see the chain skipping.

NOT -SO-FAST!!!

ANOTHER REASON TIMING MIGHT BE OFF!!!

REMOVE DIST. CAP

GRAB ROTOR BUTTON, ATTEMPT TO ROTATE IT WITH YOUR FINGERS

STERNLY, BUT NOT ENOUGH TO BREAK IT OFF, OR SHELL THE PLASTIC OUT

WILL IT MOVE---AND STAY PUT???...."PLAY CW OR CCW" IS NORMAL...JUST NOT ACTUAL 'TURNAGE'!!!

SHOULD IT TURN, THE ROLL-PIN ON THE DRIVE GEAR, AT THE BOTTOM OF THE DISTRIBUTOR SHAFT IS PROBABLY SHEARED

WHEN THE DISTRIBUTOR IS REMOVED-IT WILL APPEAR NORMAL LOOKING

REALLY THE PIN IS IN "3 PIECES" INSTEAD OF "1"

"2" ARE IN THE GEAR HOLES AND "1" IS STILL IN THE SHAFT

I HOPE AM "DEAD ON"AND YOU CAN FINALLY CONVINCE YOURSELF THAT THE PRESTOLITE IS "BEGGING" TO BE A "MOTORCRAFT"--PRIOR TO BUYING ANOTHER PIECE OF CRAP TO REPLACE IT WITH!!

BEEN AT MY DAD'S BIRTHDAY PARTY--PRESENTLY "STUCK" IN A NURSING HOME FOR REHAB, TILL HE GET STRONGER TO GO BACK HOME. (RETIRED AIR FORCE (20), RETIRED PUBLIC SAFETY (21) (2 AGENT ORANGE RELATED CANCERS.)

SEE THIS ONE OF MINE?
https://www.2carpros.com/questions/1995-ford-f-150-how-to-change-a-timing-gear-on-ford-f1501995-ford-300-6-cylinder

YOUR TURN

THE MEDIC

Tried the Rotor Idea - no such luck - wouldn't turn so the roll pin on the gear doesn't seem to be sheared. Unless you have other ideas? the thought here is still the timing chain.

Roger....

I tried!

Go back and do the Removed Spark Plug----"Spit thing"

Roll the Harmonic Balancer (crankshaft nut) around (Clock-wise, viewed from the front of the engine)----until you are at zero, with the timing marks

This will have you at the top of the Compression Stroke/ beginning of the Power Stroke

Inside your Gear Index marks should be lined up with each other.IF ALL IS GOOD WITH THE CHAIN AND GEARS!!!

If you could lay a straight edge center of the Crankshaft and center of the Camshaft----your marks would be in-between, Closest to each other, and on the same line that the straight edge produced

Only one thing that could mess up this Whole Set-up----the Outer Ring of the Balancer, could have slipped on the center ring, and now your timing marks are off (not calibrated to the Key-way of the center ring)

If you order one in from the parts store, you can sorta lay your on top of theirs and kinda see if yours has slipped, prior to buying theirs!

I do not know if you have done this before.........

Do not 3 jaw puller the outer ring!!!

Pull the bolt holes in the Balancers web, against the center of the crankshaft.....Protect the cranks bolt hole with a "Puller Button" or a smaller bolt inserted (such as a 5/16 bolt, sloppy in the threads, but sorta flanges over the hole--Push against it, withe the puller)

I can make you a pic of the type puller you need to use.....Or just tell me to shut up!, you know what you are doing!

While you are changing the chain....this is the time to replace your Crankshaft/ Timing cover Seal

Your timing gear kit will come with "Make-Up Pieces" to replace the Oil Pan Gasket, on the bottom of the timing chain cover ( I will explain it if you request me to)

So what you need is A timing chain set (I use Steel, both gears, it may be a little "Rattle-ee" but it won't tear up like the "Nylon Cam Gear", over time) You really do not hear it except at idle, with your head under the hood!

A gasket kit

A tube of Silicone ( I like black for this sort of repair, keep it warm, in the house 'till needed)

Make sure you do not move the crank!!!--Its right and lined up on the cover marks!

Move the cam gear to line up only!

Then pull the gears off and install the chain--then gaskets -then cover-then balancer (insure it still on the marks, dry fitting the cover and loosely installing the balancer...Just to verify)

Pull the Balancer on with a Treaded rod, in the crank bolt hole, and a nut made to pull it on, as you screw the nut down---DO NOT USE A HAMMER TO INSTALL IT!!!

Any of this help?

Want other explanations or tips?

You Turn

The Medic

Sorry still no "EDIT", in which I can go back and fix really stupid sounding stuff!

You may already know what I meant by pulling the balancer "ON"----this is using a special "Threaded Rod" similar to the "ROD" in the harmonic balancer puller (some kits use that same rod to re-install the balancer)

Basically you will be "pressing" it back in place--a little oil would help it slide, along with some on the surface that runs on the seal

When ya'll get done with that, you can come over here and assist me in pulling/ rebuilding/ re-installing my T-150 tranny!

Just got in my missing part(blocking ring for 1st gear) and I am ready to get on it

I must perform a Hostile Garage take over of "Mama's Side" (Willy stays where he's at, that was his problem when I got him, Outside for 45 years--inside for the last 19!) So that I might spend 2-3 days at leisure, rebuilding it, in WARMTH!

How's the project coming along, wherever your location is? Cold?

The Medic

Here's the parts--this is what the garage will look like with the Ford Escape outside ('cept it's a little cleaner now) This was a Hostile Take over to change "Mr. Jeep's" Oil last time.....The dang wheelchair has a new home now that my 2 year ordeal with a broken foot is almost over

Okay we got the cover pulled off. There is some deflection in the chain, but its not bad enough to suggest that the chain could have slipped. The timing set has been replaced as the cam gear is a steel one and not the composite gear that came from the factory.

We set the balancer on 0 degrees of what we thought was TDC of the compression stroke. After pulling the cover off the cam and crank gear timing ticks were in a straight line, but the cam gear tick was on the far side and the rotor was pointing close to the #1 plug wire.

From what I understand when the ticks are close together that is where TDC of the compression stroke should be. If this is the case then we are 180 off somewhere, either the timing set slipped exactly 180 (unlikely) or the distributor somehow got 180 out (possibly a sheared cam gear pin as you suggested earlier)

Is my thinking correct on the tick marks needing to be aligned pointing at each other, and if so how is the distributor pointing 180 off of where it should be?

Sounds like you are lined up on Zero, 180 degrees out

(You are at the top of the exhaust stroke or the beginning of the intake stroke)


IF IT WERE MINE, THIS MIGHT STRAIGHTEN EVERY THING OUT!!!

YOU ARE THIS FAR IN---I WOULD SPEND THE $$$$$ FOR A NEW--SLACKLESS, VIRGIN GEAR SET AND CHAIN

IF IT WILL GO ON CORRECTLY---that is: CRANK--Shaft, then crankshaft gear MARK, Then Camshaft Gear Mark, and then The CAM--Shaft (marks in the center).......IF THIS CAN BE DONE......

Without moving a shaft 180 degrees----ALL IS AS YOU DESCRIBED, WITH DIST. IN THE WRONG POSITION.......SOMETHING IS TERRIBLY WRONG!!!

IF YOU HAVE TO MOVE THE CAMSHAFT 180 DEGREES TO GET THE NEW GEARS (and their KEY-WAYS) TO LINE UP---YOUR DIST. IS IN THE RIGHT PLACE NOW!----REASSEMBLE! LETS HEAR IT RUN!!!





IF YOU DO NOT BUY THE NEW STUFF, TRY THIS:

Mark the 2 marks with a black marker

With someones finger/ Thumb, in the spark plug hole.....Really seal it good!

Can you bump the engine on around till the marks line up in the center (that is CRANK--Shaft, then crankshaft gear MARK, Then Camshaft Gear Mark, and then The CAM--Shaft

This can be done with a remote starter, with the key (WATCH MOVING PARTS) or with a "Pull Bar" or "Breaker Bar"

See if you get that "SPIT" when you come up starting the compression stroke

(I cannot visualize the Jeep attempting to run 180 OUT!)....Please tell me it spits when you line 'em up in the center (clockwise turn, viewed from the front)

THE ONLY OTHER EXPLANATION I COULD HAVE FOR THE DISTRIBUTOR IS, THE ROLL PIN SHEARED, IT SPUN THE DIST. GEAR 180 DEGREES, THEN IT "STUCK" AT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PIN HOLE

Or someone snatched it out, thought they were replacing it at compression stroke, but actually put it in on exhaust stroke.......I had a buddy show up, he torqued a main bearing cap (without being told to even help) when I went to eat, I came back to find it was on backwards, and now BENT OUT OF SHAPE, it required some TLC and had to be line-bored.......I know what might could happen on your end!

I've got the same Jeep you do (1977 CJ5....Better!), 'Cept I put a 2 bbl cam (was a 1 bbl YF carb w/ 1 bbl cam) in it when I rebuilt it, and added the Holley 390 4bbl Carb and Offy Intake

We will get you thru this!!!

Wanna See My Jeep Mods?.......Click on me, leave Email in my messaging (private).....When I get it I will tell you the process to read and understand the pics!

Respond with something that makes sense!.....Like you were not on compression stroke but now you are!!!

The Medic.......PS..Am I helping you at all, with my "Country Fixin'" Techniques and Wild explanations?

ALRIGHTY THEN!!!

Made this in "Paint", took some time, but at least I can re-use it!

I hope its READABLE, when I stick it in here!

The Medic

We took some pictures to help verify if we are indeed 180 off on the valve timing.

The first picture is of us verified TDC of the compression stroke via your "spit" test.

The second is where our rotor is on the distributor on TDC of the compression stroke.

To us the valve timing looks to be 180 off and then the distributor is also set to be 180 off allowing the motor to have ran when it did.

Can you verify if the timing ticks should be together at TDC of the compression stroke, or is TDC of the compression stroke the way it is showing in the pictures as is setup on our motor. The Chiltons/Haynes manuals do not say where, if ever, the timing ticks should be aligned for TDC of either stroke. Just that they are to be aligned when pulling the set off.

Oops missed the rotor picture...

Believe me !!!......I'm trying to help!

This looks impossible, unless the distributor has been pulled and rotor was just stuck back in any ole way!

Or the cam gear has been modified to fit the camshaft 180 from the pin-----possibility that its not the correct set and someone made it work (can be verified by comparing the holes and key-ways to a new set, as far as position)

You are getting the "SPIT" from #1 plug hole, PLUG CLOSEST TO THE RADIATOR?

The "SPIT" only occurs when the INTAKE AND EXAHAST VALVES ARE CLOSED--this is the compression stroke.

Another possibility is the KEY IN THE CRANK GEAR SHEARED..........

OR.....THE PIN IN THE CAMSHAFT SHEARED, and THE GEARS are spinning on the Center Bolt or on crankshaft........without being indexed in

PULL IT AND INVESTIGATE!

The pic I had was from the '79 AMC JEEP SERVICE MANUAL, I modified it in "PAINT" as not to infringe on something/ someone....it is the exact positions that a Gear set should be in.....If all is indexed right.....there is no need to get the "SPIT"--if everything is rotated into place and the chain captures it all in this PERFECTLY CALIBRATED POSITION (MY PIC)...........We can move that "SCARY" Prestowrong Distributor wherever you want it to be as far as: location of rotor to #1 wire

Am I talking too stupid for you, or can you follow my "TECHNICAL BACKWOODS TERMINOLOGY"?

My Wife doesn't understand me most of the time!

Your Turn---pull the gears and see if they still "PIN IN"

The Medic

Could it be possible that the CAM INDEXING PIN has given a problem in the past.......???.

Maybe the hole in the cam was "Wallered Out" and the pin would not stay secure in it original hole?

Then some Rocket Scientist, decided to drill/ use a NEW HOLE----180 across the Front-End of the cam.......then the Gear was rotated 180 to install on the new PIN/HOLE........this would leave the CAMSHAFT still in the Correct/ Calibrated position....only the position of the gear/ alignment mark would have changed........And "IT" (the cam gear) doesn't care WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE!!!..., AS LONG AS THE CAM LOBES ARE CALIBRATED to the Crankshaft, and when it starts turning....everything follows along in that same order at the same time!!!

Do you see any evidence that maybe something has changed with the Pin/ pinhole?

The Medic

Been thinking about this a lot

It has to be either the cam gear is off

Or the distributor is off

If we have correct parts

And if you did not accidentally run past TDC after you heard the your "SPIT"............How far did you turn the crank to line up on TDC, when it spit?

Can you run the Harmonic balancer bolt back in and RE-VERIFY the SPIT (compression stroke)using a Breaker Bar (pull handle ) to turn the crank over, one to two revolutions, "thumb" in the hole.........After the spit or "HISS", turn your CRANK GEAR MARK BACK TO ITS PRESENT POSITION?

Is the cam gear lined up right this time?

If it is, as in my pic, then either the Dist gear slipped (roll pin)/ the GEAR made onto the cam is muffed/ Or somehow the Distributor was removed and installed wrong............

Or if you wind up in the same position with the marks as in your pic, The CAM PIN--IS NO LONGER INDEXING THE CAM GEAR (the gear rotated and the cam did not.

I'm gonna get a Pal to look this over, maybe he sees something that I did not!

Just want to get you fixed soon and correctly!

The Medic

We have been consternating on this all weekend. Here is a pic of where everything is lined up TDC. I can stick a pick in the roll pin and it goes in quite far enough that I don't think that the pin is sheared. We have not pulled the timing gears at this point as we wanted to think about where we were at and review that we did not miss anything. After thinking for a couple of days we can't think of anything that we missed. Our thoughts are that we know this engine was put in this jeep as it is an 82 258 engine in a 77 CJ7. We are doing a lot of second guessing -- but might it be that when engine was out it could have been timed exactly reverse for example the guy that did it previously reversed the cylinder numbers and the number 6 cylinder at the back of the engine he counted at number 1? We did try to start by resetting Distributor to point at number 1 spark wire tower but it did not start. Son was working on it while I was at work and he said that it almost wants to start but that resetting the distributor did not change anything. Not enough to get exhaust or anything just a hint of a fire. Hard to explain like the motor started to run just a bit faster when turning over with the key.

Roger,

How about another 1/2 Revolution by hand (not the starter)

If you messed up the 1st time---right now the piston is at the bottom---and compression is starting!!!

The important thing right now is Valve Timing (we can put the distributor any where we want to later, its EZ!)

Do the "BY HAND" Revolutions, with THUMB OR FINGER in #1 hole (Closest to radiator).....rotate C-W till you get the SPIT or a Hiss around your finger

When you get this (can leave finger in place to continue to "FEEL COMPRESSION").....compression ceases as you approach TDC

Continue to rotate engine until THE CRANKSHAFT GEAR MARK GETS back to the position it is in your PIC (this position is the piston at full height or TDC) STOP WHEN ITS THERE!!!...DO NOT PASS IT AND COME BACK AROUND!!!

NOW WHERE IS THE CAM GEAR MARK???

Won't hurt to spin it this time, just to verify you did not pass it this last time

I went to Autozone and Advance Auto Online-----'79 and '82 are not the same timing set.......

HOWEVER!!!!

Haynes '49-'86 JEEP CJ and Chilton's CJ5,6,7,Scrambler, Wrangler '71-'90.......along with my '79 AMC JEEP SERVICE MANUAL shows the 6 cylinders and the 8 cylinders....ALL LINE UP LIKE MY PIC!!!

I would definitely rotate and reverify the compression stroke and TDC

I have on other thing I'm gonna check for you, if I am able to

I want to know if you have a 2 bbl BBD CARB or a 1 bbl YF carb

I know for a fact that the 1bbl used a different cam than a 2bbl

Maybe they stuck your '77 Cam in your '82 engine, I will attempt to see if the lobes are opposite on it.....I will also see if '77 1bbl timing set is the same as '79, THAT BY ITSELF WOULD LET ME KNOW IF CAM FRONT AND LOBES ARE IN THE SAME POSITION

This is a BBD----1st is a '79---second is a '83 BBD, I do not have a YF pic

Tell me what you have and results with Compression and TDC.....

Send me a message with your Email, I will send you scanned stuff of mine there...Tell me what you want to see in message.

As far as the pin goes, until you pull the gears you will not know for sure if its sheared or not.......the pin may be stuck in the hole and no longer attached to the cam!

The Medic

Sorry, I meant a full crank revolution, at the beginning (above).......

My Pap's in really bad shape, bringing him home, (his house) tomorrow from the nursing home, 2 agent orange cancers got him from 'Nam.......He wants to come home, its really escalating now.

That's sorta why I didn't answer sooner.

The Medic

Just checked a '77 timing set---its the same part # as a '79 at "Zone" and "Advance"

Therefore I conclude the Cams have the same index as each other, and......

Gear Marks should be as in my pic, to be at TDC---gotta be either the cam pin sheared, you are not on TDC, or this is some WILD AFTER-MARKET THING.........Distributor has no bearing on whether the cam and crank are synchronized!

Waitin' on your eyes and hands

Please feel no embarrassment if you didn't do some step right, I screw up too! I just want to hear that you are straightened out, I do not get paid for each answer like the guys who "Work" here.

I sorta feel like a Volunteer Doctor, I just want to hear you are riding around in the Most Perfect Vehicle in the world

This pic is my '79 AMC JEEP MANUAL, It was left in my '79 CJ 5 when I bought it in 1984....I did not take care of it at 1st, now I treat it like a sacred scroll!.....It really shows everything in detail! Even good for other nearby years.

The Medic

OK the plot grows thicker I think, we pulled the cam gear and the index pin is NOT sheared, but there are 2 holes 180 apart on the end of the cam that the roll pin COULD fit in. We COULD put the cam gear back on the cam and have the tick marks line up when at TDC.

I question if this is normal to have 2 index holes in the cam or did someone in the past do some home engineering? either way it appears that this may NOT be the problem because the cam gear COULD be in either location (tick marks together as in your picture or 180 apart as they were when we took timing cover off) and the cam should still be in correct position, right?!! so we are back to wondering if it is somehow in the ignition system - is the ignition module programmed somehow to deliver a spark at the appropriate time and for some reason this box is programmed wrong, is there a problem with the distributor not delivering the spark at the appropriate time.

am thinking about looking for an HEI system at junkyard and replacing the existing ignition system.

I am researching the "Correct Hole"....Maybe the last feller pulled the pin OR it just fell out...Then was just stuck back in, any ole way!

Your system now (No HEI) is so much simpler....to improve on it, would be The Motorcraft System, it too would be Simple and more Durable than what you have and part availability would be EZ in the future.

As far as power, mileage, or again simplicity with fuel....Weber or Holley Carb properly tuned is the economical answer

I have a feeling that someone MADE THIS (cam deal) WORK CORRECTLY (the backwards way), and only they knew the SECRETS of what was done.

I will find the REAL PIN POSITION, so far it looks like we might have to pull the fuel pump or the valve cover, to either see the position of the ECCENTRIC lobe position (fuel pump lobe) or the rocker arm heights(1st lobe on the cam) IN COMPARISON TO THE LOCATION OF THE PINS....I'm still looking, here's my 1st try, not a good pic.....sorta see what I mean about the FUEL PUMP LOBE (1st on the cam)....I need an Oblique or end view....got more places to go for this, back real soon.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Edelbrock-1500-6500-RPM-625-int-639-exh-valve-lift-112-deg-lobe-hydraulic-roller-camshaft-use-stock-ratio-rocker-arms-only-Not-legal-sale-use-on-pollution-controlled-veh/_/N-26dj?counter=0&filterByKeyWord=stock+cam&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=936814_0_0_

I really believe that once you get the cam in (I hope so that the next feller would start out Stock and Correct, if it get pulled down again)

I THINK MAYBE YOU REALLY HAD A IGNITION PROBLEM AS THOUGHT AT 1ST,If you gotta buy the Dist, Think seriously on spending on this...... I HAVE DIAGRAMS I MADE, WHEN I SWITCHED TO MOTORCRAFT, SO I WOULD BE CONFIDENT WITH THE SWAP, AND NOT BE HOLDING A BUNCH OF UNKNOWN WIRES, WHEN I SNIPPED IT LOOSE....Like I said:

All you need now is some '80s Ford Wiring between the Dist and Module, and the end that would connect the Jeep to the Module (maybe $10 Max, at a Self Serve Salvage Yard)

Once the Timing stuff is right, WE "WILL" FIND THE ACTUAL PROBLEM, EVEN IF WE RETEST EVERY THING AGAIN--or try different techniques!

Whaccu think?

The Medic

The cam I have in the link above is not correct, the Dist Gear is on the end......Ours is in the middle.....I'm still searchin' for something accurate!!!

The Medic

I'M STILL HERE

KEEP ME INFORMED

MY PAP DIED IN HIS SLEEP LAST NIGHT ABOUT 7:20

YA'LL GOTTA KEEP ME BUSY, PLEASE.

THE MEDIC

Sorry to hear your Pap passed away.

We been reconfiguring over the xmas break - consulting with some other pro mechanics we think the 258 may be puked since we have low compression 40 or 50 lbs and have 0 compression in one cylinder. our consultants think that the issue may be more serious internal. We happened upon a used AMC 360 engine out of a J20 pickup. The engine ran 3 months ago when it was pulled out of the truck and the price was right, so we now is looking at a transplant. This one has a motorcraft ignition so we are on the right track there. Question that we have been researching is on the flywheel. This 360 came out of truck with automatic so we have to change over the flex plate from the automatic to a flywheel for the standard transmission. Not sure but we are trying to figger out if the flywheel needs balanced specifically for the 360. We have seen both opinions that the v-8 motors need to have the flywheel specifically balanced for a 304, specifically for a 360, and same for a 401. We also have seen that they do not need specifically balanced. We also have seen that the flywheels are interchangeable for example we have another flywheel from a 258 appears to be able to bolt up to the 360, have also seen that a flywheel can be balanced to the flexplate so that they are balanced the same, and then the flywheel can be used.

hope that is clear enough as a question - the basic is do flywheels have to be specifically balanced to a specific displacement engine.

I believe in balance!...But I also believe if its gonna be done---all components should be done while NEW-LY "BUILDING" a "Perfection Type Engine"......It does make a big difference when the RODS are balanced on both ends---PISTONS all weigh the same---and the Crank is spun and balanced 1st (by itself) then the Flywheel (it balanced only, when the crank is spun) then the pressure plate added and balanced by itself----What I mean is each piece is added and material added or removed on that component only, when everything else is spun with it too!....Everything marked as to reassemble exactly as it was on the balancer!

Even honing with TORQUE PLATES IS A PLUS, However $$$$$ plays a big role in this kinda stuff!

But realistically-Used engine......, forget the balancing, till you make yourself a Perfection Engine

I worked in a Machine shop that balanced special car engines, I was not involved a lot in it.......But I did see a '69 Plymouth Roadrunner that lacked power, I rode in it, it drove well at low speeds

They thought "we" had messed up with the machining (I was really just a tear-down clean up kinda feller there, High-school Machine shop landed me the job for about 8 months)

Come to find out it was running PERFECTLY and SMOOTHLY on ONLY 4 cylinders!......Balance was the reason

I do not remember exactly why every other cylinder was not firing, but they got it hashed out, and was the owners fault

I also saw a engine come in FRIED (our fault again!)....Owner bought a new Oil Pick-up tube.....When we pulled the oil pan off, he had installed this "WRONG TUBE", the "Succer Part" (wrote like this because of auto Censor gadget) was not in the bottom of the pan....It was Perpendicular and not even in the oil......The Cool part was HE COULD NOT BE CONVINCED IT WAS HIS FAULT!!!

Whaddu think about my Opinions?

The Medic

Sorry--Sorta evaded your actual question, Yes some are balanced to a particular engine some are NOT!

I do not know the answer for this engine.

In case you were thrown off, My "PAP" is my Daddy...He had 2 cancers, Agent Orange related from 'Nam....He left in his sleep, this all sorta hit him the last 2 years, while I was laid up with fractured foot w/ several complications......He had a Very Nice Air Force Military Funeral....I took pics

I will let you see my albums (Jeep Stuff) If you want to see them, Just click on my name and send me a message....I do not know if you can initiate, so I will......Look for a message

The Medic