1970 Jeep CJ5 Ignition issues

I HAVE NOT DEALT MUCH WITH THE BUICK V-6

I MAY CAN HELP WITH THE POINTS

A GOOD PIC MIGHT BE NICE

MY '46 IS A 134 FLATHEAD

THE DWELL/ TACH IS A GOOD THING, AS IT IS NEEDED TO SET IDLE SPEED CORRECTLY, AND NOT ONLY USED FOR THE DWELL

SEND PIC OF YOUR PAL TOO, I LIKE TO SEE WHAT I'M WORKIN' ON!

PERTRONIX IS THE BEST THING THAT I EVER DID TO MY WILLYS IGNITION

"WILLY" RUNS SO MUCH SMOOTHER!

MORE INFO ON THAT IN THIS LINK- SEE "MY ANSWER" NEAR THE BOTTOM

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/1972-volkswagen-beetle-should-intake-manifold-very-hot-touch

WE WILL GET YOU GOIN'!

YOUR TURN

THE MEDIC

Ok I've been doing some checking and when I turn the key on the resistor gets smoking hot. The guy I got it from pulled power from the deed side of the resistor to run the fuel pump. Shouldn't matter but it's there. I have ordered the pertronix for it and will have it Wednesday. Will be removing the resistor ?? Coil says it needs one though.

I ORDERED THE "BLASTER" COIL TOO!

YOU CAN TRY THE RESISTOR AND YOUR COIL, IF IT AIN'T HAPPENING YOU CAN GO THE OTHER ROUTE WITH A COIL WITH A BUILT IN RESISTOR, LIKE FOR A '77 CJ-5 258 W/ A "PRESTOLITE IGNITION SYSTEM"

READ YOUR PERTRONICS LITERATURE TO MAKE SURE WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS ACCEPTABLE

WHAT'S THE REASON FOR A 'LECTRIC PUMP?

IF YOU GOTTA KEEP IT, DON'T RUN THRU THE RESISTOR TO POWER IT

THE MEDIC

MISTAKE ABOVE-

IT IS A "FLAME THROWER" COIL

THE MEDIC

I have spark out of the coil but nothing to the plugs. I'm starting to think the new points I bought are either wrong for this application or they are bad. Wednesday the new ignition comes in. Praying that does it. This motor runs too strong to give up on it.

I also moved the electric pump power to under the dash. The electric pump was on there when I bought it. The old manual pump is not there and the access has a plate over it. Don't want to stir up any more trouble right now so I'm leaving well enough alone. lol.

CAN YOU SEND A GOOD WELL LIT CLOSE UP OF THE DIST. WITH ROTOR BUTTON REMOVED?

WE'LL HASH OUT MY DISLIKE OF 'LECTRIC PUMPS AFTER WE GET THIS THING GOING!

HOW ARE YOU TESTING FOR SPARK AT THE COIL/ PLUGS?

HAVE YOU HAD THE DISTRIBUTOR OUT OF THE ENGINE?

THE MEDIC

I will send the pic tomorrow. I have the plugs out and connect to the wires and grounded. Turn the engine over and no spark.
I did take the distributor out but it went back exactly as it came out. Very confident of that. I've done a lot of them so I know it's right.

IF YOU CAN GET BELOW THE POINTS MOUNTING PLATE, SEE IF YOUR MECHANICAL/ CENTRIFUGAL WEIGHT WILL MOVE/ SEE IF THE SPRING THAT RETRACTS THEM IS BROKEN

AS WHICH THEY ARE ALWAYS BE ADVANCED -'NUTHER WORDS, THE "ADVANCE" WILL NOT SYNC WITH ENGINE SPEED, THE SYMPTOM WOULD BE NO ADVANCE AT ALL, THE ENGINE WOULD "HOLD BACK" AS YOU ATTEMPT TO ACCELERATE, ALONG WITH POPPING AND SPITTING

IT WILL CONFUSE YOU, THE TIMING WAS PERFECT! (THEN SPRING BROKE) , NOW IT'S X DEGREES OFF, HOW DID THAT HAPPEN? I'LL RETIME IT! (STILL AIN'T MECHANICALLY ADVANCING) DUH? HUH?

IF IT'S STILL RUNNING, IT CAN BE DETECTED (BEFORE GOING INTO THE DISTRIBUTOR)

USING A TIMING LIGHT,

DISCONNECT AND PLUG THE VACUUM ADVANCE HOSE ON THE DISTRIBUTOR.

FIRE IT UP.

AT IDLE, WE WILL READ WHERE THE TIMING IS SET TO WITH THE TIMING LIGHT

GRADUALLY ACCELERATE THE THROTTLE, THE MECHANICAL ADVANCE "SHOULD" START MAKING YOUR TIMING MARK TO BE ADVANCED MORE AND MORE AS RPMs INCREASE

IF THE SPRING IS BROKEN (OR WEIGHTS ARE NOT MOVING OUTWARD) DURING INCREASED RPMs, YOUR MARK WILL NOT MOVE FROM WHERE IT WAS AT IDLE

I'VE SIMULTANEOUSLY BEEN HELPIN' THIS FELLER

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/1967-pontiac-bonneville-no-spark-to-sparkplugs

I THINK HE'S NOW GETTING SOMEWHERE

MAYBE YOU HAVE A SIMILAR ISSUE?

THE MEDIC

My mechanical advance is above the plate im pretty sure. This is a delco distributor not a Perless.

As you can see the weights are on top. Springs are good.

Should have said Perless distributor. I have to have some type of direct short somewhere. I'm thinking the points are grounded but I don't see how it could be but that is what started all this.

DID YOU READ THE LINK I SENT ABOUT THE BONNEVILLE?

MAYBE YOUR ISSUE IS LIKE HIS?

THE MEDIC

I did read it. That refers to an issue with timing and advance weights. I'm not having that issue. I am not getting any spark. I've changed the entire ignition system and still only intermitton spark. Again I am convinced something has to be grounding but I sure can't find it. The jeep ran before taking the points out so it has to be something within the distributor. I will be changing to a Per tronix 1165 on Thursday and at that point I will be taking the distributor apart. If there's an issue inside I will see it then.

YOU READ THESE EXCERPTS IN THAT POST

I MADE A PIC SHOWING MY ISSUE, SORTA EXPLAINED USING A CONTINUITY TEST

ME

WE SAW WHY THE PREVIOUS OWNER (SOME 20 YEARS BEFORE) HAD ABANDONED IT IN A FIELD BEHIND HIS HOUSE

THE BOLT AND NUT THAT HOLDS THE TWO STRAPS OF THE POINTS (SILVER AND BRASS) ONTO THE DISTRIBUTOR MUST HAVE GOTTEN LOST, AND HE REPLACED IT WITH ANOTHER ONE

I REPLACED IT THE SAME WAY TOO!

IT WAS TOO LONG AND WAS BARELY TOUCHING THE INSIDE OF THE DISTRIBUTOR OUTER HOUSING

CONSTANT GROUND!

I GROUND THE BOLT OFF, RE-INSTALLED IT, STUCK MR. DISTRIBUTOR CAP ON

FIRED OFF ON THE FIRST REVOLUTION!

EIGHT HOURS OF THAT "KNOT IN MY STOMACH"/ FIXED IN TWO MINUTES!

THIS MAY NOT BE YOUR PROBLEM, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING IS TOUCHING GROUND SOME HOW IN THERE

ME

NO CONTINUITY IS "JUICE AIN'T MAKING THE LOOP" (WHEN POINTS ARE OPEN) (WHICH IS GOOD!)

CONSTANT CONTINUITY WHILE OPEN OR CLOSED (IS NOT GOOD!) LOOK FOR THE PROBLEM, IT MIGHT BE THAT THE "CORK LOOKING" PAPER UNDER A PART IS GONE OR NO LONGER ISOLATING THE PART FROM THE PLATE OR BODY


HIM

Thank you for telling me about the piece of paper under the points that was the problem. I cut out a gasket out of a bicycle tube and made little rubber washers for the bolts it works good now getting power to plugs thank you again


ME

RADIO SHACK MAY HAVE THE CORRECT KINDA GASKET PAPER

NEXT TIME YOU SEE A SHELLED OUT OLD RADIO OR TV, BUST INTO 'EM AND YOU MIGHT FIND THE CORRECT MATERIAL IN IT

DID YOU LOOK FOR THINGS LIKE THAT IN YOURS?

THE MEDIC

I'M NOT TRYING TO MAKE YOU FEEL DUMB

JUST BEING REPETITIVE, WANNA DO FULL COVERAGE, BEFORE WE ELIMINATE THIS FACTOR

REMEMBER, I SPENT EIGHT HOURS, CONSTANTLY LOOKING RIGHT AT THE PROBLEM WITH MINE

ALSO WHAT IS THE VOLTAGE AT YOUR POS SIDE OF MR. COIL?

THE MEDIC

I'VE REALLY POURED OVER THIS

(AND I LIKE DOING SO)

I JUST AIN'T GETTIN' GREASY

CHECK OUT MY PIC BELOW

THE MEDIC

Ok I've been checking some more and I have spark coming out of the coil. I can rotate the rotor by hand at the hig point of the points cam and get spark from the coil. (Coil wire out of distributor ). I put the cap back on and plug the coil wire back into the cap and nothing to the plus. New cap new rotor new wires new plugs. I've bought the entire ingnition system under the hood!!! From the resistor to the coil to the points wires cap rotor plugs. It's all new!!! As for voltage at the positive side of the coil with the key on is 12 volts not 5. Checked it at both sides of the resistor and its 12 volts. I've worked on a lot of motors but this has me stumped. It has to be something stupid at this point. Every time I've had one give me trouble it's usually something simple. I have even gone to the point of bypassing the wire from the resistor to the coil as well as the wire from the coil to the distributor. Still nothing. If the coils firing isn't it in the rotor or cap? Points are doing their job sending the spark. The rotor is what transfers it to the right plug through the cap. I've checked the cap and rotor and everything checks out. I check to make sure voltage could get through with the ohm meter.

As for the points being isolated they do not check out. They appear grounded based on the test you show. I traced back to the resistor and with the points open it shows grounded. That doesn't make sense because that's where my voltage is coming from.

SOMETIMES CATALOG MISTAKES, CUSTOMERS PLAYING "MUSICAL PARTS", WITH 5 OPEN BOXES, IGNORANCE, STUPIDITY, MISTAKES, AND CELL PHONES INTERFERE WITH THE SACRED COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN YOU AND THE PARTS GUY

LET'S CHECK ON A THOUGHT TO BE "GIVEN" IN THIS EQUATION

REMOVE THE DISTRIBUTOR CAP AND ROTOR BUTTON

SORTA HOLD THE BUTTON CENTERED INSIDE THE CAP

DOES THE NOSE END OF THE BUTTON LOOK LIKE IT HAS ENOUGH REACH TO GET REALLY CLOSE TO THE OUTER CONTACTS?

THERE WERE OTHER ENGINES YOUR JEEP, SWAPPED PARTS IN BOXES MIGHT ALSO ACCOUNT FOR A WRONG BUTTON, ETC

I'M STILL GRABBIN'

VOLTMETER SET TO OHMS

POINT GAP OPEN

ONE LEAD ON THE DISTRIBUTOR CASE

THE OTHER ON THE "ARM" OF THE POINTS OR ON THE ELECTRICAL STUD ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE DISTRIBUTOR

DO YOU HAVE CONTINUITY?

YOU SHOULD NOT!

THIS SHOULD BE ISOLATED FROM THE STUD TO THE TIP OF THE CONTACT

I'LL BE HERE TILL MAYBE 11 PM EASTERN

THE MEDIC

ON THAT LAST TEST

MAKE SURE YOU DISCONNECT THE WIRE(S) THAT CONNECT TO MR. DISTRIBUTOR SO THAT THERE IS NO "OUTSIDE" INTERFERENCE WITH THE TEST

THE MEDIC

With no wires connected the test is good.
As for the voltage on the resistor I switched the wires and the voltage is now correct.

12 OR SO ON THE KEY SIDE?

6-9 OR SO ON THE COIL SIDE?

THE MEDIC

It's just short of six on the coil side and 12 on the key side.

HOW COME I AIN'T HEARD HIM BUST OFF YET?

THE MEDIC

Because it still has no spark. Makes no sense.

I still gotta check the rotor in the cap but I took a break. Too frustrated right now. I got the Pertronix coming in tomorrow. I also have hunters coming in so I may not have a chance to work on it till Sunday or Monday.

CAP OFF - ROTOR TURNS WHEN CRANKED?

COIL IS ONE THAT USES "EXTERNAL RESISTOR"

WHERE'D YOU GET IT/ PART NUMBER?

YOU ARE 100% POSITIVELY SURE YOU DROPPED THE DISTRIBUTOR IN AT TDC, AND ROTOR WAS POINTING AT #1 SPARK PLUG WIRE? (I'LL GO OVER THIS IF NEED-BE)

TRIED 1960s "GRAND THEFT AUTO" YET?

UNHOOK THE WIRES ON THE POS SIDE OF COIL--- THEN, POS BATTERY TO POS COIL- NO RESISTOR (JUST FOR THIS TEST) SEE MY PRETTY PICS

'NUTHER HOUR, HURRY BACK!

THE MEDIC

THE COIL PIC WAS MADE FOR A '79-'86 CJ-5/7

THEY HAVE RESISTANCE WIRES, NOT A BALLAST RESISTOR

HOWEVER- WIRE OR BALLAST, IT IS STILL "EXTERNAL RESISTANCE" PRIOR TO REACHING THE COIL

I HAD TO USE A BALLAST RESISTOR ON MY '77 CJ-5 BECAUSE I UPGRADED THE PRESTOLITE (CRAPPY IGN SYSTEM) TO A "MOTORCRAFT" IGN, JUST LIKE '79-'86

'76-'78 USED A COIL WITH INTERNAL RESISTANCE

INSTEAD OF USING HALF/ HALF OF EACH SYSTEM, I OPTED TO DO IT ALL LIKE '79 ('CEPT FOR THE ADDITION OF THE BALLAST RESISTOR - A MUST HAVE FOR MY MODIFICATION) THIS KEEPS ME USING/ SAYING IT'S A '79 FOR MY INFO AT A PARTS STORE, THIS CUTS DOWN ON CONFUSION WHEN I GET IGN STUFF!

THE MEDIC

POINTS ARE SET CORRECTLY?

HAVE YOU MOVED THE DISTRIBUTOR CW AND CCW WHILE LOOKING FOR SPARK? (MAYBE THE POINTS ARE OPENING BETWEEN TOWERS)

THE 1960s GRAND THEFT AUTO TEST MIGHT GIVE US AN IDEA ON THE COIL HAVING/ NEEDING RESISTANCE

IF YOU THINK YOUR FINDING TDC MIGHT BE WRONG, AGAIN, I CAN GET IT 'SPLAINED PRETTY WELL

I'M SENDING "DAVID AND CHAD" TO GIVE YOU A HAND.....LET THEM EXPLAIN THIS A FEW TIMES BEFORE YOU "JUMP IN".....THEY DON'T MIND AT ALL!

CLASS 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a2X9mSSlQY

CLASS 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=FHX1yXVyIMg&feature=endscreen

YOU AND I BOTH KNOW THIS IS GONNA TURN OUT TO BE SOMETHING OBVIOUS!

SEE YOU TOMORROW

THE MEDIC

BUSY DAY

TIME TO RELAX

PROGRESS?

THE MEDIC

Unfortunately I have not been able to do anything. I have hunters coming this weekend so I'm preping for that. Won't even see the jeep till Sunday at best.

I UNDERSTAND

I'LL BE RIGHT HERE WHEN YOU RETURN

THE MEDIC

It lives!!!!!

WONDERFUL!

YOU PIC MAY NEED TO BE RESIZED TO GET IT TO WORK ON HERE

MAYBE THIS ONE WILL AID YOU MORE?

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/jeep-cj7-1985-jeep-cj7-stalls-when-hot

THIS WAS BACK SORTA WHEN I WAS NEW HERE, THEY CONVINCED ME TO CHANGE MY USERNAME (YOU'LL SEE IT), FOR SOME REASON THEY DIDN'T CARE MUCH FOR IT.

LET'S GET ANOTHER PIC ON HERE!

THE MEDIC

Well here it is. I also change the speedo and instrument cluster

SO LIKE WE ARE REALLY HAPPY NOW?

IF SO

IF YOU EVER GET UNHAPPY AGAIN

YOU KNOW WHERE TO COME TO?

NICE JEEP!!!!

KEEP IT THAT WAY!

I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT YOU HUNG WITH ME, I REALLY LIKE TALKING JEEP!

THE MEDIC